The Talk Show with John Gruber
The Talk Show with John Gruber

136: ‘Fully Charged Pencil’ With Jason Snell

Special guest Jason Snell joins the show to talk about iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, how iOS still feels like *iPhone OS* at a fundamental level, and Don Norman and Bruce Tognazzini’s overwrought “How Apple Is Giving Design a Bad Name” article for Fast Company. Also: the new membership program at Six Colo

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John Gruber Host

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The discussion centers on the newly released iPad Pro and Apple Pencil, praising the Pencil’s precision, palm rejection, and industrial design while questioning Apple’s software choices—especially keyboard support and touch/keyboard integration. The hosts also debate whether iPad Pro can replace a Mac for work, conclude it depends on workflow and user history, and broaden into app economics, pro software on iPad, and the limits of Apple’s current UI philosophy.

Main Topics: Apple Pencil availability and retail rollout (Priority: 4/5): They note reports that Apple Pencils are beginning to show up in retail stores, suggesting logistics and supply are improving after early shortages and shipping delays. Apple Pencil experience and technical behavior (Priority: 5/5): The Pencil is described as highly precise, low-latency, and unusually well-executed, with strong palm rejection and a minimalist, buttonless design that feels very Apple-like. iPad Pro as a work machine (Priority: 5/5): The hosts debate whether the iPad Pro can be used for real work, concluding that for many communication- and document-based jobs it can, but migration costs from the Mac are a major barrier for long-time Mac users. Keyboard and text-input shortcomings on iPad (Priority: 5/5): A major criticism is that iOS still handles external keyboards poorly: users lose touch-based insertion controls, keyboard navigation is incomplete, and some system behaviors like autocorrect and command-tab are inconsistent. Professional software and app economics on iPad (Priority: 4/5): They discuss whether the iPad App Store can sustain pro-level software pricing and business models, noting that subscription giants like Microsoft and Adobe have advantages, but indie developers may still succeed in niche markets. Apple’s design philosophy and UI evolution (Priority: 4/5): The conversation explores whether Apple has sufficiently rethought iPad UI for a large touchscreen device, arguing that many interface patterns are inherited from the iPhone rather than designed from scratch for the iPad Pro. Membership model for Six Colors (Priority: 3/5): Near the end, Jason explains launching paid memberships for Six Colors via Memberful/Stripe, aiming to diversify revenue and fund more site writing and a monthly members-only newsletter.

Key Arguments: The Apple Pencil appears to be shipping in greater numbers and may be easing an initial logistical bottleneck. Apple Pencil’s core interaction model is excellent: high precision, minimal lag, and palm rejection that feels convincingly robust. The Pencil’s lack of buttons, status lights, and visible controls is deliberate and fits Apple’s ‘naked core’ design approach. For many office-style jobs—email, documents, spreadsheets, web work—an iPad Pro can absolutely be a work machine. The main obstacle to switching from Mac to iPad is not capability alone, but the cost of changing a mature, highly optimized workflow. Apple’s external keyboard support is incomplete; the iPad loses useful touch behaviors like two-finger text insertion when a hardware keyboard is attached. Command-tab on iPad feels like a borrowed Mac feature that should instead align with the iPad’s own app-switching model. The iPad App Store can support pro apps, but success likely depends on niche focus, pricing strategy, and whether apps also run on iPhone. Apple’s current iPad software is behind the hardware’s potential; iOS still feels like an iPhone-origin interface scaled up rather than an iPad-specific operating system. The conversation suggests Apple is increasingly treating products as distinct tools for distinct users rather than forcing one device line to serve everyone. Direct reader support through memberships can make independent publishing more sustainable and reduce dependence on freelance work.

Data Points: Date of recording: Thursday, November 19th - Opening remarks about Apple Pencil stock reports Launch timing mentioned: Wednesday, the 18th - Referenced as the day when many Pencil-in-store reports appeared Apple Pencil battery level: 26% - Jason checks battery status in iPad notification center Jason’s Mac experience: 26 years - He says he started using the Mac in fall 1989 Podcast editing time: about 1.5 to 2 hours - Time it took him to edit an episode in Ferrite on iPad Membership pricing: $50/year or $5/month equivalent - Six Colors reader membership discussed in the second half Memberful processing fee: monthly fee plus percentage of transactions - Jason describes the backend service for memberships Braintree first-transaction promo: first $50,000 in transactions fee-free - Sponsor offer mentioned in ad read Warby Parker starting price: $95 - Base price for prescription eyeglasses Harry’s starter offer: $10 with code TALKSHOW - Promo for a starter kit including razor, blades, and shaving cream

Pivotal Quotes: "this is one of the most exciting things Apple's done in a long time" — Speaker 1: Praise for Apple Pencil and the broader iPad Pro experience "the issue wasn't, could it do it? The issue was the migration thing" — Speaker 2: Explaining why iPad Pro may be capable enough, but still hard for long-time Mac users to adopt "there's nowhere to put it officially" — Speaker 2: Commenting on Apple Pencil storage/attachment and Apple’s choice not to build an official dock or slot

Implications: The iPad Pro may expand the market for serious iPad use, but Apple still needs better keyboard-centric software and clearer pro app economics. For creators and publishers, direct membership models may be a viable path to more sustainable independent work.

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About The Talk Show with John Gruber

The director’s commentary track for Daring Fireball. Long digressions on Apple, technology, design, movies, and more.

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