The Rest Is History
The Rest Is History

147. Disease, the New World and modern pandemics

How devastating were European arrivals to the Americas in terms of deaths and the introduction of new infectious diseases? Tom and Dominic are joined by Professor Kyle Harper from the University of Oklahoma to discuss the relationship between disease and colonial expansion, the origins of the Spanis

Featured Speakers

Kyle Harper Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Kyle Harper argues that disease history is inseparable from ecology, empire, and globalization. The discussion revisits the Columbian Exchange, showing that Indigenous American population collapse was driven by multiple pathogens plus war, famine, and disruption, while also tracing how slavery, plantation systems, urbanization, and transport networks created new disease regimes. The episode ends by linking past pandemics to COVID-era assumptions about progress and vulnerability.

Main Topics: The Columbian Exchange and Indigenous demographic collapse (Priority: 5/5): The hosts and Harper reassess the scale and causes of population loss in the Americas after European arrival, emphasizing that disease was central but not the only factor; war, famine, and agricultural collapse also mattered. Tuberculosis before and after Columbus (Priority: 4/5): Harper explains the surprising evidence that tuberculosis existed in the Americas before European contact, likely via sea-mammal transmission, while later European strains displaced local lineages. From divine punishment to empirical public health (Priority: 4/5): The conversation tracks the decline of disease-as-punishment explanations and the rise of 18th-century empiricism, vaccination, sanitation, and environmental reform. Slavery, plantations, and tropical disease (Priority: 5/5): The episode highlights how the Atlantic slave system and plantation ecologies incubated and spread diseases such as yellow fever, malaria, hookworm, and yaws, especially in the Caribbean and Brazil. Cholera and the age of globalization (Priority: 4/5): Cholera is presented as a modern global disease emerging in 1817 near Calcutta and spreading through imperial shipping and urban poverty, intensifying public-health reform. The Spanish flu and modern pandemic memory (Priority: 3/5): Harper compares the 1918 influenza pandemic with COVID-19, stressing its global spread, avian origins, and its unusual impact on healthy young adults. Progress, civilization, and pathogenic advance (Priority: 5/5): The discussion closes on the paradox that technological and civilizational progress reduce some harms while creating new opportunities for pathogens through density, mobility, and interconnection.

Key Arguments: The old estimate of 100–120 million people in the pre-contact Americas is likely too high; a lower estimate around 40 million better fits the evidence. Indigenous population collapse was real and severe, but it resulted from a combination of disease, war, famine, and social disruption rather than a single apocalyptic pathogen sweep. Ancient DNA has shown that some 1540s Mexican mass burials contained paratyphoid fever, demonstrating that multiple introduced pathogens—not just smallpox—were involved. Tuberculosis likely existed in the Americas before Columbus and may have arrived via sea mammals carrying a lineage related to human TB. Disease explanations shifted in the 18th century from divine punishment toward empirical prevention, sanitation, ventilation, and vaccination. Miasma theory was scientifically wrong but practically useful because it encouraged cleaner water, better sewage, and healthier urban environments. Plantation slavery created ideal conditions for mosquito-borne disease by combining sugar cultivation, standing water, and dense human labor. West Africa remained difficult for European settlement largely because falciparum malaria made mortality extremely high. Cholera was a product of globalization and imperial trade, not an ancient endemic disease, and its spread helped drive modern public-health movements. The 1918 influenza pandemic was global, devastating, and distinct from COVID because it disproportionately killed healthy young adults. Modern societies experience infectious disease as a scandal because they no longer expect mass death from it, unlike earlier generations. Civilization and globalization inevitably alter pathogen ecology; progress changes the disease landscape rather than eliminating risk.

Data Points: Estimated pre-contact population of the Americas: ~40 million (give or take 10 million) - Harper argues this is more plausible than older estimates of 100–120 million. Older scholarly estimate of Americas population: 100–120 million - Presented as a now-implausible high estimate from earlier scholarship. Mexico population in 1516: 8–10 million - Approximate population before the major 16th-century demographic crash. Mexico population by end of 16th century: 2–3 million - Shows the scale of demographic collapse after conquest and epidemics. Major epidemic years in central Mexico: 1520–1521; 1540s; about a decade later; another generation later - Harper describes four major pandemic waves affecting central Mexico. Cholera emergence: August 1817 - Harper says cholera emerged about 50 miles from Calcutta. Distance from Calcutta: 50 miles - Approximate location of cholera’s emergence. Spanish flu death toll: 50 to 100 million dead - Global mortality estimate for the 1918 influenza pandemic. Number of human coronaviruses before COVID-19: 4 common-cold coronaviruses plus 3 others - Harper notes seven human coronaviruses in total, with four already widespread before COVID-19. Year Jenner published vaccination discovery: 1798 - Used as a symbol of 18th-century empiricism and preventive medicine.

Pivotal Quotes: "the demographic crash of Mexico in the 16th century is one of the most extreme demographic events attested in history" — Kyle Harper: On the scale of Indigenous population loss after European contact. "miasma theory... may steer you towards doing some things that nevertheless work" — Kyle Harper: Explaining why a wrong theory still produced useful sanitation reforms. "we are animals that have parasites that want to take advantage of our success" — Kyle Harper: On why civilization and globalization create new opportunities for disease.

Implications: The episode suggests disease is not a historical anomaly but a recurring consequence of density, mobility, and inequality. Public health improves outcomes, but globalization and ecological change ensure new pathogens will keep emerging.

🔓 Sign Up for Unlimited Episode Search

About The Rest Is History

Take a deep dive into History’s biggest moments with Tom Holland & Dominic Sandbrook. Explore the stories of History’s most brutal rulers, deadly battles, and world-changing events. From the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the Nazi conquest of Europe, and Hitler’s evil master plan for world domination, to the French Revolution, the sinking of the Titanic, or the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, Tom and Dominic bring the past to life with gripping storytelling and expert analysis, as they unpack the high-drama moments that shaped our world. Join The Rest Is History Club: Unlock the full experience of the show – with exclusive bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to every series and live show tickets, a members-only newsletter, discounted books from the show, and access to our private Discord chatroom. Sign up directly at therestishistory.com. For more Goalhanger Podcasts, head to www.goalhanger.com.

View all episodes from The Rest Is History