164: ‘Enjoyably Clicky’ With Jason Snell

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode begins with an extended, enthusiastic discussion of mechanical keyboards—especially Leopold FC660M and Apple Extended Keyboard 2 nostalgia—before pivoting to a deep analysis of Apple rumors from Mark Gurman about the upcoming iPhone and MacBook Pro. The hosts also debate Bloomberg’s reporting style, Apple’s product strategy, Maps’ history, accessibility features, and even Olympic streaming UX, tying everything back to Apple’s design philosophy and operational scale.

Main Topics: Mechanical keyboards and tactile preference (Priority: 5/5): The conversation opens with a detailed comparison of mechanical keyboard switches, layouts, keycaps, and the emotional attachment users develop to specific typing feels. The speakers discuss Cherry Blue, Matias, Leopold, WASD keycaps, and the challenges of loud typing during podcasting. Apple’s hardware rumor cycle and Mark Gurman’s reporting (Priority: 5/5): A major portion analyzes Gurman’s Bloomberg reports on the new iPhone and MacBook Pro, including how Bloomberg’s sourcing language changes the framing of rumors and why its style makes reports feel more authoritative and careful. iPhone redesign, dual cameras, and product segmentation (Priority: 5/5): The hosts debate rumored changes to the new iPhone lineup: dual-lens cameras on the larger model, a force-touch home button, possible naming schemes, and whether the 4.7-inch model remains the mainstream device or gets squeezed by the SE and the larger phone. MacBook Pro redesign and function-key touchscreen strip (Priority: 4/5): They explore rumored MacBook Pro changes: a thinner but non-tapered chassis, Touch Bar-style replacement for function keys, USB-C, possible color options, and concerns about how much third-party software would need to adapt. Apple culture, Maps, and scaling beyond the old startup mindset (Priority: 4/5): The discussion uses Apple Maps and the Fast Company profile of Apple executives to illustrate how Apple has evolved from a small-team company into a large-scale organization, while still retaining a culture of secrecy, caution, and aversion to bad hires. Media quality, product commentary, and UX frustrations (Priority: 3/5): The speakers critique how stories are written and attributed, discuss Bloomberg’s and Fast Company’s editorial approaches, and touch on frustrating product UX in the Olympics streaming app as a contrast between ideal and real-world design.

Key Arguments: Mechanical keyboards are a matter of both sound and feel, and users often gravitate toward the switch type similar to the keyboard they grew up with. Bloomberg’s reporting style is more explicit about sourcing, which improves clarity and signals what is confirmed versus inferred. The upcoming iPhone’s larger model likely gets the more advanced dual-camera system because it has room for better optics and product differentiation. Apple is likely using the larger iPhone to justify its premium position, while the SE and smaller phone serve value and size-conscious buyers. A force-touch-style home button would fit Apple’s broader goal of reducing moving parts and improving water resistance and durability. The rumored MacBook Pro redesign appears to be driven by a desire to create a true Pro laptop with more power, more battery, and a different keyboard philosophy, not merely a thinner consumer device. Apple Maps’ failure is used as a case study in how a small, insular team can fail when a company must operate at global scale, and why Apple now relies more on public betas and larger teams. Apple’s culture remains unusually cautious about hiring and spending despite its wealth, because it still behaves like a company shaped by near-death experience. The Fast Company profile succeeds by showing Apple as a large, powerful, but still disciplined company rather than a doomed or chaotic one. The Olympics app and streaming experience show that even well-funded media products can fail when they optimize for business constraints instead of user needs.

Data Points: Keyboard size: 60% - The mechanical keyboard discussed at the start is described as a compact 60% layout with no function row. Keyboard model: Leopold FC660M - The guest identifies the mechanical keyboard brand and model currently being used. Switch type: Cherry Blue - The keyboard’s switch mechanism is specifically identified as Cherry Blue. Keycap source: WASD Keyboards / eBay - Custom orange keycaps were purchased from WASD’s shop after starting with black keycaps. Price paid for keycaps: probably way too much money - A qualitative but explicit indication that the keycap purchase was expensive. Apple Extended Keyboard 2 collection: 3 - The speaker says they are using their third Apple Extended Keyboard 2 over a lifetime. Untouched mint keyboard: 1 sealed in box - One Apple Extended Keyboard 2 remains sealed and mint in the box. Intentional walks drawn by Barry Bonds: 200+ in one season - Used to illustrate Bonds’ extraordinary pitching respect and dominance at the plate. A-Rod career home runs: 696 - Mentioned in the baseball discussion as his career total at that time. Apple Maps team size: more than 1,000 employees - The Fast Company profile notes that Apple’s Maps effort grew into a much larger organization. iPad replacement cycle: roughly every 3 years - A person familiar with Apple strategy said Apple believes customers replace iPads on a three-year cycle. iPhone replacement cycle: every 18 to 12 months - The same source said iPhones are upgraded much more frequently than iPads. Gurman story timing assumption: September 7 event - The hosts infer Apple’s September event date from historical patterns and the calendar. New MacBook Pro battery/size rumor: slightly thinner, not tapered - Gurman reportedly says the new MacBook Pro will not have a wedge shape like the Air or 12-inch MacBook. MacBook Pro color options: space gray, gold, silver - A source said Apple had considered adding iPhone-like color choices to the new MacBook Pro. Fracture discount: 10% off - The sponsor offer for using fractureme.com/podcast. Eero promotion: free overnight shipping - Promo code 'thetalkshow' yields free overnight shipping. Boom for iOS promotion: $1.99 - The in-app purchase is discounted from the normal $4.99 to $1.99 before August 21. Boom for iOS normal price: $4.99 - The usual in-app purchase price mentioned in the ad read.

Pivotal Quotes: "I got really excited when I bought a mechanical keyboard, and I'm really loving it." — John Gruber: Opening of the keyboard discussion, setting the tone for a deeply personal hardware preference segment. "It's like taste. It's like when you eat something, you're tasting it, but you're also smelling it. And those two things go together. Keyboards is like that." — John Gruber: Explaining why keyboard sound and feel are inseparable in assessing what makes a good typing experience. "It went from a couple dozen people or dozens of people to like, more than a thousand people working on maps now." — John Gruber: Illustrating how Apple had to scale up dramatically to build and maintain Apple Maps globally.

Implications: The episode suggests Apple is entering a mature phase where product choices reflect scale, discipline, and differentiation. It also shows how hardware rumors, sourcing language, and UX details shape public perception of Apple’s future products.