192: ‘The Original Sin Is XML’ With Special Guests Manton Reece and Brent Simmons

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Brent Simmons and Manton Reece discuss the shared philosophy behind their projects: JSON Feed, Micro.blog, a reboot of Frontier, and a new Mac feed reader, Evergreen. The conversation argues for practical, low-friction tools—especially JSON over XML—for publishing, syndication, and blogging, while emphasizing open-web values, simpler workflows, and more humane platform design.

Main Topics: Frontier and the value of image-based scripting (Priority: 5/5): The guests explain what Frontier was: a scripting system tightly integrated with a persistent object database and UI, where saving data was as easy as assigning a variable. Brent’s rewrite aims to modernize it in Swift while preserving that powerful model. JSON Feed as a simpler syndication format (Priority: 5/5): They present JSON Feed as an RSS/Atom alternative built for modern tooling: easier to generate, easier to parse, and less error-prone than XML. They stress that it is additive, not a replacement for RSS or Atom. Pragmatism vs. XML complexity (Priority: 5/5): A major thread is the claim that XML is too complex and brittle for common publishing workflows, especially when HTML content and character encoding are involved. JSON is framed as the practical choice for today’s developers and automation tools. Micro.blog and making blogging as easy as posting (Priority: 4/5): Manton describes Micro.blog as a lightweight blogging and social platform that supports short posts, photos, Markdown, and optional cross-posting to Twitter, with the goal of making posting to your own site feel as easy as Twitter. Evergreen: a new open-source Mac feed reader (Priority: 4/5): Brent announces Evergreen, an open-source, Mac-only feed reader he is building as a nights-and-weekends project. It will support RSS, Atom, and JSON Feed, and is intended to be free and community-oriented rather than commercial. The open web, blogging, and long-lived personal publishing (Priority: 4/5): They argue that blogs, feeds, and personal domains remain valuable, durable, and underappreciated compared with centralized social networks. Both guests see their work as part of reviving or preserving that culture. WWDC, Mac priorities, and Siri extensibility (Priority: 3/5): The conversation ends with hopes for WWDC: fewer flashy Mac changes and more stability, plus a more flexible Siri SDK that lets developers build richer integrations beyond Apple’s currently narrow set of supported actions.

Key Arguments: JSON Feed is intentionally pragmatic: it solves a few real problems instead of trying to become a universal format. XML’s complexity and brittleness create real-world failures that developers repeatedly have to work around. JSON is widely supported and often trivial to generate or consume in modern programming environments. Frontier mattered because it collapsed scripting, persistence, and data modeling into one environment, making development unusually fast and fun. Micro.blog exists to make posting to your own site as easy as Twitter, while keeping content on your domain. Evergreen and Micro.blog are aligned with the same broader goal: strengthening the open web through simpler tools. Feed readers and blog publishing should be easier and more democratic, enabling more people—not just experts—to participate. Siri’s current developer model is too constrained; Apple should expose a much more flexible extension model. Open-source, public development can be educational and exciting, letting users watch software being built in real time.

Data Points: Frontier original release: circa 1992 - Discussed as the era when Frontier first appeared and was focused on Mac automation. JSON Feed adoption timing: Within 24 hours - They noted many sites had JSON feeds almost immediately after announcement. Manton’s early email history with Brent about JSON Feed: 2015 - Manton said he found emails about the idea going back to 2015. Daring Fireball traffic drop after Google Reader shutdown: 25% - John said page views fell by about a quarter when Google Reader disappeared. Evergreen age/working timeline: Two and a half years at Omni Group - Brent’s current day job duration at Omni was mentioned while discussing his broader workload. WWDC event date: June 4 - A screening of App: The Human Story was scheduled for Sunday before the WWDC keynote. MailRoute discount: 10% lifetime discount - Offer for listeners signing up through the podcast link. Squarespace discount: 10% off first order - Coupon code GRUBER during checkout. Away promo savings: $20 off - Discount offered through the podcast link. Micro.blog launch status: Kickstarter backers only - At the time of discussion, Micro.blog was still limited to backers and not yet public.

Pivotal Quotes: "“JSON feed is like RSS or Atom, but it’s in JSON.”" — Brent Simmons: Brent defines the format in the simplest possible terms during the explanation of the new specification. "“It should be as easy to post to your own site.”" — Manton Reece: Manton summarizes the core goal of Micro.blog and the broader publishing philosophy behind it. "“I like to think of it as an artifact from an alternate universe.”" — Brent Simmons: Brent reflects on Frontier as a model of software design that could have become the dominant path for scripting and persistence.

Implications: The episode suggests a renewed push for open-web tools that are simpler, more humane, and less dependent on centralized platforms. If adopted, JSON Feed, Micro.blog, and Evergreen could make publishing, syndication, and reading feeds more accessible again.