195: ‘I Do Like Throwing a Baby’ With John Moltz

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode ranges from Apple’s 10th-anniversary iPhone reflections and WWDC aftermath to a deep dive into a Computer History Museum conversation with the original iPhone team, especially Scott Forstall. The hosts also discuss pencil nostalgia, school supply shortages, web bloat, Apple’s leak investigations, and the broader ethics and business issues around Uber and other tech companies.

Main Topics: 10th anniversary of the iPhone and Apple product evolution (Priority: 5/5): The hosts reflect on how the iPhone reshaped computing behavior, especially mobile use, and how features like ProMotion and Touch ID continue to move the platform forward. Computer History Museum interview with original iPhone team (Priority: 5/5): A major portion of the discussion focuses on John Markoff’s long interview with Scott Forstall, Hugo Fiennes, Nitin Ganatra, and Scott Herse, including stories about Steve Jobs, the Rockr project, and early iPhone development. Scott Forstall’s public return and Apple culture (Priority: 5/5): They assess Forstall’s stage presence, compare his demeanor to active Apple executives, and discuss how Apple’s culture and secrecy shaped the people who worked there. Leaks, reporting, and Apple’s internal anti-leak efforts (Priority: 4/5): The conversation examines Apple’s leak investigations, the Outline’s reporting on an internal anti-leak presentation, and speculation about how information escapes from Apple today. Uber’s scandals and business skepticism (Priority: 4/5): They criticize Uber’s culture, leadership, alleged retaliation against journalists, and question whether the company has a sustainable business moat or valuation justification. Everyday tech behavior and device ergonomics (Priority: 3/5): There are extended observations about people constantly using phones in public, the effect of phone screens and animations on usability, and whether features like ProMotion, 3D Touch, and the Touch Bar are worth keeping. Miscellaneous personal follow-ups and hardware talk (Priority: 3/5): The hosts cover pencils, school supply shortages, donation sites for teachers, UPS package headaches, a new suitcase sponsor, Nintendo Switch impressions, and Chris Lattner’s abrupt Tesla exit.

Key Arguments: The iPhone changed daily behavior so profoundly that seeing crowds glued to phones now feels like science fiction from the pre-iPhone era. Apple’s UI design success is less about raw tap counts and more about making interactions understandable and spatially intuitive. Scott Forstall and Steve Jobs shared a strong product philosophy; Forstall’s stories suggest Jobs was far more rational and focused than often portrayed. Apple’s anti-leak efforts are aimed at product secrecy, not whistleblowers or harassment complaints. Uber’s valuation and business model are hard to justify because ride-hailing can become a commodity once incentives and drivers shift. Companies like Apple and Lyft are viewed as better-aligned choices because they are perceived to behave more responsibly than Uber. The web has become slower and more intrusive because of JavaScript-heavy tracking, autoplay, and data-collection practices. New hardware features like ProMotion are only truly convincing when experienced directly rather than read about in specs.

Data Points: iPhone anniversary: 10 years - The episode frames the discussion around the iPhone’s tenth anniversary. Computer History Museum session length: About 2 hours - The Markoff/Forstall event is described as a two-hour discussion. Original iPhone team speakers: 3 main team members plus Scott Forstall - Hugo Fiennes, Nitin Ganatra, and Scott Herse spoke before Forstall’s solo appearance. Audience size at leak presentation: About 100 people - The Outline report said roughly a hundred employees were present. Phone usage estimate in public: Over half - Gruber estimated over half of people in a downtown lobby were using phones or headphones. AirPods battery claim: About 2 hours on their own - Gruber references Mark Gurman’s prior reporting on AirPods battery life before returning them to the case. Suitcase trial period: 100 days - Away’s luggage return window was described as 100 days. Suitcase discount: $20 off - Away’s promo code was said to save $20. Mailroute discount: 10% lifetime discount - Listeners using the sponsor link receive a lifetime discount. Mailroute free trial: 30 days - The sponsor offer includes a 30-day free trial. School computer spending example: $500 per kid - The hosts mention districts spending about this much on computers per child. Touch ID-related hardware detail: Secure enclave processor - Speculation about the iMac Pro keyboard referenced a secure enclave processor.

Pivotal Quotes: "He'll get it when it's fucking ready." — Scott Herse recounting Steve Jobs: A story from the Computer History Museum talk about Jobs’s intolerance for schedule pressure. "He's a billionaire and he's scamming the company." — Scott Forstall: Forstall laughingly described Jobs insisting on paying for food through payroll deduction despite his salary arrangement. "Why does it have to be done like that? This is not the way a world-class country should operate." — John Gruber: A complaint about school supply shortages and teachers having to crowdsource basic classroom materials.

Implications: Listeners are reminded how much Apple’s original iPhone work still shapes modern mobile computing, while the Uber and leak discussions highlight how company culture, secrecy, and ethics increasingly affect trust, product adoption, and industry reputation.