Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Michael Shermer interviews anthropologist Elizabeth Weiss about her lawsuit against San Jose State University, her criticism of repatriation laws, and the role of identity politics in archaeology. Weiss argues that reburying ancient Native remains and limiting access to collections undermines science, and she defends objective, comparative research against political and religious claims in archaeology. The conversation also expands into academic cancel culture and the controversial legacy of J. Philippe Rushton.
Main Topics: Repatriation, NAGPRA, and scientific access to remains: Weiss explains why she opposes repatriation/reburial of ancient Native American remains, arguing that collections must remain available for ongoing study, replication, and reinterpretation as methods improve. Lawsuit and alleged retaliation at San Jose State University: She says the university labeled her racist, locked her out of the curation facility, and restricted access to collections and data after public criticism of repatriation and a social media post holding a skull. Objective science vs. creation myths and cultural relativism: Weiss argues that repatriation decisions should not be based on Native American origin stories or spiritual claims, which she sees as analogous to creationism entering scientific decision-making. Academic cancel culture and professional intimidation: Shermer and Weiss discuss broader campus and field dynamics, including public shaming, deplatforming, and fear among archaeologists who disagree with repatriation orthodoxy. The Rushton/Wilson controversy and scientific taboo: The conversation shifts to J. Philippe Rushton’s race research and E.O. Wilson’s private correspondence, using that case to explore whether controversial inquiry should be distinguished from personal racism. What bones can still teach us: Weiss emphasizes that skeletal collections reveal diet, disease, mobility, violence, sex differences, and cultural practices; she argues these insights are lost if remains are destroyed or reburying prevents reanalysis.
Key Arguments: Reburial ends scientific inquiry; once remains are buried, future methods cannot be applied to test old conclusions or anomalies. Collections are valuable precisely because science changes; past misclassifications (e.g., sex estimation) were corrected by restudying preserved remains. DNA can show broad biological relatedness, but it cannot by itself determine a specific modern tribe or justify automatic repatriation. Creation myths and spiritual claims may matter culturally, but they should not override empirical evidence in scientific or legal decisions. The current archaeological climate is shaped by guilt, identity politics, and postmodern relativism, which can push the field away from objective knowledge. Weiss says her opposition is not anti-Indigenous; she supports research that tells the most accurate possible history, regardless of who produces it. The university’s actions were retaliatory and disproportionate, turning a scholarly disagreement into a career-threatening ideological dispute. Not all Native Americans or archaeologists agree; she rejects the idea that one political or tribal position can represent an entire community.
Data Points: Length of collection curated by Weiss: 17 years - Shermer says Weiss has curated the fossil collection for the past 17 years. Earliest widely accepted migration into North America: ~13,000 years ago - Weiss describes this as the current consensus among archaeologists, while noting debate over earlier dates. Alternative earliest migration estimates mentioned: Up to 22,000 years ago - She notes some researchers push migration dates back this far, though she finds evidence beyond 22,000 unreliable. Kennewick Man age: ~9,000 years old - Discussed as a key case in the repatriation controversy and Weiss’s early research. Paleo-Indian threshold cited: >7,000 years - Weiss says she wrote in 2001 about problems with reburial of Paleo-Indians dated over this threshold. Ryan Mound collection span: ~2,000 years - The university collection she discusses runs from about 3,000 to 500/800 years ago. Ryan Mound collection size: >300 individuals - Weiss identifies it as the biggest collection under her care. Tweet/photo age of skull: ~2,500 to 3,000 years old - The social media image that triggered university backlash showed Weiss holding this skull. Book review authors: 7 authors - Shermer reads a highly critical review of Repatriation and Erasing the Past that was coauthored by seven reviewers. Wondrium trial offer: 22-day free trial - Mentioned in sponsor copy at the start of the episode.
Pivotal Quotes: "Science is never complete. And if you bury the bones, then that's that." — Michael Shermer: Shermer summarizes Weiss’s central argument against repatriation and reburial. "I think that creation myths don't belong in the decision-making process." — Elizabeth Weiss: Weiss argues that repatriation policy should be based on science, not origin stories or spiritual claims. "I was married to him, so. I know the theory quite well." — Elizabeth Weiss: Weiss reveals mid-interview that she was formerly married to J. Philippe Rushton, changing the discussion of his motives.
Implications: The episode frames repatriation as a test case for whether universities prioritize evidence or ideology. It suggests archaeology may face further conflict over access, academic freedom, and who gets to define historical truth.