The Talk Show with John Gruber
The Talk Show with John Gruber

271: ‘A Perfect Wheel’ With Jason Snell

Special guest Jason Snell returns to the show for a brief chat about the new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR, which are both — dare I say — *finally* available for ordering. Also: Ming Chi Kuo’s intriguing rumors on the 2020 and 2021 iPhone lineups.

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John Gruber Host

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode is a wide-ranging deep dive into Apple’s new Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR pricing, modularity, and target market, mixed with a smaller but significant discussion of rumored 2020/2021 iPhone changes, including an SE-style model and a possible portless future. The hosts argue the Mac Pro is expensive but rational for true professionals, while the iPhone rumors raise major questions about usability, accessories, and Apple’s long-term hardware direction.

Main Topics: Mac Pro launch timing, symbolism, and Apple’s pro strategy (Priority: 5/5): The hosts emphasize how long Apple took to deliver the new Mac Pro after promising a redesign, arguing that the product matters as a signal of Apple’s renewed commitment to pro users more than as a mass-market machine. Mac Pro pricing, configurability, and modular design (Priority: 5/5): They break down the base price, CPU, RAM, storage, GPU, Afterburner card, rack option, and wheel option, debating whether Apple is overcharging or simply pricing a workstation appropriately for professional buyers. Pro Display XDR and accessory pricing (Priority: 4/5): They discuss the display, its missing webcam, compatibility limits, and the famously expensive monitor stand and wheels, using these accessories as examples of Apple’s willingness to charge premium prices for high-end engineering. Why most users probably do not need a Mac Pro (Priority: 5/5): A central argument is that the Mac Pro is important as a symbol and for niche pros, but most listeners and most Mac users would be better served by an iMac Pro, Mac mini, or MacBook Pro. 2020 iPhone lineup rumors and the SE/iPhone 9 concept (Priority: 4/5): The conversation shifts to Ming-Chi Kuo’s rumored iPhones: a lower-cost SE-style model with Touch ID and older design language, and multiple OLED iPhones with expanded size tiers. Portless iPhone rumor and the future of charging/accessories (Priority: 5/5): They debate the plausibility of Apple removing the Lightning port entirely in 2021, weighing benefits like waterproofing against major drawbacks for CarPlay, battery cases, charging, and recovery workflows. Technical and publishing aside: hosting, encoding, and old software (Priority: 3/5): A long digression covers Daring Fireball’s move to Linode, Movable Type, MySQL UTF-8 vs latin1 encoding quirks, and the practical frustrations of maintaining older publishing infrastructure.

Key Arguments: The Mac Pro is significant mainly as a symbol of Apple’s recommitment to the pro market, not because most users should buy one. Apple’s Mac Pro pricing is extreme but consistent with workstation economics, where buyers can rationally spend tens of thousands of dollars. The new Mac Pro is unusually modular for an Apple product and could evolve via component updates without being a brand-new model. The base storage and RAM options are too small for many true pro workflows, so most serious buyers will customize heavily. The Afterburner card and modular GPU options suggest Apple is targeting niche professional video and media workflows with specialized acceleration. An SE-style iPhone in an older body makes sense as a lower-cost option for users who want familiar hardware and Touch ID. The rumored 2020 iPhone lineup likely reflects a strategy of expanding the iPhone range rather than simply replacing one flagship model. Removing the Lightning port is much harder to justify than removing the headphone jack because it affects charging, CarPlay, accessories, recovery, and battery cases. Old infrastructure can still work well if handled carefully; compatibility and encoding choices matter more than appearances.

Data Points: Days since Apple promised a new Mac Pro: 980 days - Time between Apple acknowledging a future Mac Pro redesign and the new model becoming available. Mac Pro base price: $5,999 - Starting price for the new Mac Pro discussed throughout the episode. Rack-mount premium: $500 - Extra cost to order the Mac Pro in rack-mountable form. CPU upgrade to 12-core: +$1,000 - First step up from the base 8-core Mac Pro configuration. CPU upgrade to 16-core: +$2,000 - Second Mac Pro processor step-up. CPU upgrade to 24-core: +$6,000 - Large jump in processor cost, also tied to higher RAM ceiling. CPU upgrade to 28-core: +$7,000 - Top processor option discussed. Maximum RAM upgrade: 1.5 TB for +$25,000 - Highest memory configuration for the Mac Pro. 768 GB RAM upgrade: +$10,000 - Intermediate memory configuration discussed as part of pricing analysis. 4 TB SSD upgrade: +$1,400 - Mac Pro storage option. 8 TB SSD upgrade: coming soon; estimated +$2,600 - Not yet available at the time of discussion, but inferred from other Apple pricing. Afterburner card price: $2,000 - Apple’s accelerator card for ProRes/video workflows. Wheel kit premium: $400 - Extra cost for the Mac Pro’s wheels versus feet. Wheel cost per wheel: $100 each - Derived from the $400 wheel option. Pro Display XDR stand: $1,000 - Referenced as a previously announced premium accessory. Pro Display XDR release date: December 10 - The day Apple announced the Mac Pro would go on sale. Mac Pro delivery window: December 19–27 - Base-model shipping estimate cited from Apple’s store. RAM price comparison: 16.62 per GB over 32 GB - The hosts compare Mac Pro RAM pricing against the iMac Pro. iPhone 2020 rumors: 4 new models - Ming-Chi Kuo’s rumored 2020 iPhone lineup. Rumored smallest 2020 iPhone display: 5.4 inches - New compact OLED model in the rumored lineup. Rumored large pro iPhone display: 6.7 inches - Largest rumored model, up from the current 6.5-inch max. Rumored mid-tier iPhone display: 6.1 inches - Two rumored 6.1-inch models, one of which would replace the current iPhone 11 class. Current iPhone 11 size: 6.1 inches - Used as a comparison point for the rumored 2020 lineup. Current iPhone XS size: 5.8 inches - Mentioned as the size that some users may prefer not to exceed. Mac hosting savings: about $550/month down to about $80/month - Daring Fireball’s hosting cost reduction after moving to Linode. ExpressVPN promo: extra 3 months free - Offer for listeners using the show’s link. ClearBank funding range: $10,000 to $10 million - Sponsor offer described in the ad read. ClearBank approval time: single day / 20-minute term sheet - Funding process described in sponsor copy.

Pivotal Quotes: "We painted ourselves into a thermal corner." — Phil Schiller: Referenced as Apple’s candid explanation of why the old trash can Mac Pro design failed. "I think the Mac Pro is really important and you shouldn’t buy one." — John Gruber: A distilled version of his argument that the machine matters symbolically, but most listeners do not need it. "The future is wireless headphones." — John Gruber: Used to explain Apple’s logic in removing the headphone jack and to question whether the same logic applies to removing Lightning.

Implications: Apple is clearly rebuilding its pro hardware story while also widening iPhone options, but its most radical moves still need a convincing user benefit. Pros may embrace the Mac Pro; a portless iPhone will require a better-than-obvious replacement ecosystem to succeed.

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About The Talk Show with John Gruber

The director’s commentary track for Daring Fireball. Long digressions on Apple, technology, design, movies, and more.

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