396: ‘The Essence of Stealing’, With David Barnard

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: David Bernard and John Gruber traced the evolution of the App Store from a developer-friendly breakthrough into a heavily shaped platform economy, then dug into Weather Up’s design, pricing, and privacy choices. The conversation centered on how App Store rules, search, reviews, and pricing incentives affect indie businesses, and how the EU DMA may create both new opportunities and new risks for developers.

Main Topics: Origins of iPhone development and WWDC 2008 (Priority: 5/5): Bernard recounts bootstrapping his first app business around the iPhone SDK announcement, missing day-one App Store availability because of Apple approval timing, and the harsh realities of early iOS development. App Store economics and pricing collapse (Priority: 5/5): They argue the App Store initially resembled the Mac software market but quickly pushed prices down via charts and download-based incentives, making cheap/free apps dominant and hurting many niche products. Apple’s role as platform curator and market shaper (Priority: 5/5): Both speakers discuss how Apple’s policies on subscriptions, updates, search, reviews, and payouts effectively function as rules of a small economy, not a free market. Weather Up product design, monetization, and privacy (Priority: 5/5): Bernard explains Weather Up’s widget-first design, the cost of weather data and frequent updates, the removal of ads, and why a hard paywall and privacy protections were chosen. Subscriptions, value, and user fatigue (Priority: 4/5): They frame subscription fatigue as value fatigue: users object when they don’t perceive sufficient ongoing value, while subscriptions are defended as the best model for sustainable software. DMA, core technology fee, and new EU app-market possibilities (Priority: 5/5): A major portion of the interview analyzes Apple’s DMA compliance plan, especially the core technology fee, its impact on freemium businesses, and the potential for new categories like alternative stores and porn apps. Copying, stealing, and product originality (Priority: 3/5): The discussion closes on the difference between shameless cloning and creative borrowing, using Weather Up’s widget design, Windows vs. Mac history, and classic film examples to define meaningful innovation.

Key Arguments: The App Store was initially a strong deal for developers because Apple handled distribution, payments, taxes, and global infrastructure; over time, however, its pricing and chart mechanics pushed the ecosystem toward cheap apps and gaming the system. Apple’s intent in the early App Store era was not purely revenue extraction; it was also to sell more iPhones by making the platform more valuable to users and developers. Search, ratings, and reviews are still heavily gamed, and Apple has not done enough to prevent manipulation that can distort discovery and rankings. Subscription models are not inherently bad; the real problem is that users feel they are paying without receiving enough value, and transparent, value-driven subscriptions are the best long-term model. Weather apps are unusually expensive because they require ongoing data purchases, map/radar calls, widgets, watch complications, and frequent background refreshes, so ads alone were not a sustainable or trustworthy model for Weather Up. The DMA creates real opportunities for new app business models, but Apple’s core technology fee shifts the burden in a way that can still crush small or viral freemium apps if they scale unexpectedly. Good design is not just copying surface appearance; true innovation comes from iterating until the product makes sense, then borrowing ideas in a way that adds substantial new value.

Data Points: Family seed funding for Bernard’s first app company: $20,000 - Bernard borrowed this amount from family to start his iPhone app business in 2008. Cost of WWDC badge / conference attendance: Full-price ticket rather than press badge - He describes paying out of pocket in later years to attend all week rather than using limited press access. App Store launch date: July 11, 2008 - Referenced while discussing the first iPhone SDK/App Store era. iPhone SDK announcement date: March 6, 2008 - Gruber confirms the SDK announcement and Jobs/Forstall presentation timing. App Store standard commission: 30% - Discussed as Apple’s original take rate for paid apps and subscriptions. Small developer subscription commission: 15% - Referenced as Apple’s reduced rate for smaller subscription businesses. Old Mac OS X upgrade price: $129 - Used to illustrate how expensive software and operating system upgrades used to be. Weather Up pricing: $40/year or $4/month - Bernard describes current pricing and an A/B test versus $39.99. Dithering pricing comparison: $58/year or $5/month - Mentioned as another app pricing structure for comparison. RevenueCat scale: $3 billion/year in transactions managed - Bernard describes RevenueCat’s processing volume across iOS, Android, and web. Potential EU core technology fee example: $0.50 per install / $0.50 per update per year - Discussed as a hypothetical but consequential charge under DMA compliance. Example of viral app risk: A bill of about $4.5 million - Bernard notes a freemium app hitting 10 million users could owe massive fees under the core technology fee model. Weather data precision choice: Latitude/longitude truncated to block-level precision - Weather Up intentionally reduces location precision before sending it to third parties. Weather App widget refresh cadence: Every 15–30 minutes - Used to explain recurring API costs for widgets and complications. BMW? no, Apple weather app market share in EU music example: Spotify 56%, Apple 8% - Gruber cites Apple’s statement on EU music-streaming market share to show Spotify’s dominance and monetization weakness.

Pivotal Quotes: "The thing that infuriates them aren't the people who publish the leaks. It's the people inside the company who do the leaking that that's the betrayal." — David Bernard: On Apple’s real grievance with leaks and spoilers "Subscription fatigue is actually value fatigue." — David Bernard: On why users resist recurring payments when they don’t perceive ongoing value "Good artists copy, great artists steal." — John Gruber: On the difference between shameless copying and making ideas your own

Implications: The App Store remains a powerful but imperfect economic gatekeeper. Developers must weigh Apple’s convenience against platform risk, fee structures, and discovery problems. The DMA may unlock new business models, but it also introduces new fragility for small apps.