605. What Do People Do All Day?

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode explores how work has changed from physical, craft-based labor to specialized, digital, and often less tangible jobs, using the American Mural Project and two experts—economist David Autor and anthropologist James Suzman—to examine innovation, inequality, status, and job satisfaction. It argues that technology creates new work even as it destroys old work, but the quality and dignity of jobs matter as much as quantity.

Main Topics: The American Mural Project as a tribute to disappearing work (Priority: 5/5): Ellen Griesedick’s mural in Connecticut depicts workers in physical, skilled trades and serves as a cultural archive of labor that has declined or transformed over time. How innovation creates and destroys jobs (Priority: 5/5): David Autor explains that new technologies can automate tasks out of existence or augment expertise, and that new occupations constantly emerge even as older ones vanish. The changing structure of occupations in the U.S. (Priority: 4/5): The conversation traces shifts from mid-20th-century mechanical/office jobs to post-1980 growth in professional, technical, managerial, and personal-service work. Deep history of work: hunter-gatherers, farming, and cities (Priority: 4/5): James Suzman contrasts immediate-return economies of foragers with delayed-return farming and the rise of aspiration-driven urban labor, arguing work has always been shaped by scarcity and social organization. Job satisfaction, dignity, and the meaning of work (Priority: 5/5): Both experts stress that people care about more than wages: predictable hours, security, dignity, social identity, and meaningful contribution strongly influence how work feels. AI, coordination, and the future of human-centered work (Priority: 5/5): Autor argues AI could extend expertise and improve lower-wage jobs, but only if institutions—firms, unions, universities, and government—steer it toward augmentation rather than displacement. Menial leisure and the desire for physical completion (Priority: 3/5): The episode suggests many people seek gardening, knitting, baking, and other hands-on hobbies because modern jobs often lack the physical satisfaction once built into daily work.

Key Arguments: Much of today’s work did not exist in 1940, but that does not mean there are fewer jobs overall; instead, occupations are continually recomposed as technology and demand change. Innovation has 'multiple faces': some inventions substitute for labor, while others create complementary expertise and higher-value specialties. The labor market is not just about quantity of jobs; the type of jobs, their wages, and whether they provide dignity and stability matter politically and socially. The rise of personal-service jobs has not fully offset the loss of older manufacturing and office work, contributing to lower pay and more precarious employment for many workers. Hunter-gatherer societies were organized around abundance and immediate return, while agriculture created delayed return, scarcity, and relentless labor for uncertain future rewards. Modern urban life shifts scarcity from survival to status, jealousy, and aspiration, which can drive hard work but also dissatisfaction and inequality. AI should be used to extend expertise and broaden opportunity, not merely to replace workers or intensify surveillance and protocol enforcement. Successful adaptation to technological change requires coordination among firms, labor unions, universities, and government rather than relying on market forces alone. A healthy democracy depends on a substantial middle class earning dignity through work, not only through redistribution after the fact.

Data Points: Share of current U.S. jobs that did not exist in 1940: around 60% - Findings from the Quarterly Journal of Economics paper discussed by David Autor and co-authors Share of U.S. employment in agriculture around the turn of the 20th century: 40% - Autor contrasts historical agricultural employment with the modern economy Share of U.S. employment in agriculture today: under 2% - Used to illustrate long-run labor market transformation via technology Time to complete the American Mural Project: more than 20 years / five years of measurement work discussed separately - The physical museum took over 20 years to build; Autor’s measurement project took five years Number of people involved in creating the mural: 15,000 - Museum’s estimate of collaborators, though Ellen Griesedek says she is the central driving force Time to attach engines to a 747: about 22 minutes - Ellen Griesedek describes Boeing workers performing highly coordinated labor Annual work hours in the U.S. at the turn of the 20th century: about 3,000 hours per year - Autor uses this to show how work hours have fallen over time Annual work hours in the U.S. at present: under 2,000 hours per year - Autor’s estimate of contemporary labor time Workday at Kellogg's during the Great Depression: reduced from 8 hours to 6 hours - Sussman uses Kellogg’s as an example of shorter hours and maintained output Kellogg's workweek later restored: 40 hours - Workers reportedly voted for more hours and higher pay in the consumer boom era Number of roles reduced at Sam's Club in a redesign effort: from about 60 to about a dozen - Autor cites Zeynep Ton’s job redesign approach to improve productivity and worker outcomes Museum/opening year of the American Mural Project: 2022 - The project opened to the public after decades of planning De Beers tenure for James Suzman: 7 years - Suzman explains leaving anthropology for corporate work and then returning Historical age of Homo sapiens in Southern Africa referenced for Bushmen ancestry: around 300,000 years - Suzman describes the Bushmen as direct descendants of early Homo sapiens

Pivotal Quotes: "“We want to show that innovation had multiple faces.”" — David Autor: On the research approach distinguishing labor-saving inventions from work-augmenting ones "“The problem with the second welfare theorem is it's not true. It's fundamentally not true at any relevant human level.”" — David Autor: On why growth and distribution cannot be cleanly separated in real economies "“Modern efficiency has robbed most of us of that satisfaction that comes from baking a loaf of bread, digging a hole in the garden, going on a hunt, going fishing.”" — James Suzman: On the loss of physical completion and immediate gratification in modern work

Implications: The episode suggests the future of work should be judged by dignity, stability, and meaningful skill-building, not just efficiency or GDP growth. AI and policy can help if they expand expertise and share gains more broadly; otherwise, they may deepen insecurity and social fragmentation.