Freakonomics Radio
Freakonomics Radio

623. Can New York City Win Its War on Rats?

Even with a new rat czar, an arsenal of poisons, and a fleet of new garbage trucks, it won’t be easy — because, at root, the enemy is us. (Part two of a three-part series, “Sympathy for the Rat.”)

Featured Speakers

Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher HostBobby Corrigan GuestJessica Tisch GuestKathy Karate Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode argues that New York’s rat problem is less about single tactics than about city systems: trash, construction, measurement, and human behavior. Through Bobby Corrigan, Kathy Karate, Jessica Tisch, and others, it shows why poison and traps are limited, why containerized trash is central, and why cities are experimenting with data, birth control, and burrow-killing methods—while recognizing rats’ adaptability and the difficulty of true eradication.

Main Topics: Rat ecology and behavior in cities (Priority: 5/5): Bobby Corrigan explains how rats use sewers, burrows, wall-hugging paths, and repeat colonies to colonize dense urban neighborhoods; rats are depicted as highly adaptive mammals whose success depends on available food and shelter. Limits of traditional control methods (Priority: 5/5): The episode critiques poisons, traps, and glue traps as blunt tools that can be ineffective, inhumane, or dangerous to other animals and people, making them last-resort options rather than primary solutions. New York’s rat action plan and trash containerization (Priority: 5/5): A major focus is the city’s effort to reduce rat food access by replacing sidewalk garbage bags with standardized bins and larger on-street containers, supported by new trucks and legislation. Science, data, and the first National Urban Rat Summit (Priority: 4/5): City and academic leaders meet to share research and improve rat measurement, since rat counts are unreliable; the summit marks a shift toward evidence-based urban pest management. Comparative models: Alberta and rat-free governance (Priority: 4/5): Alberta’s long-running anti-rat program is presented as an unusual success story, sustained by border monitoring, public reporting, education, and early prevention before rats established breeding populations. Rat control as a mirror of city governance (Priority: 4/5): Robert Sullivan and others frame rat wars as reflections of municipal priorities, infrastructure, and leadership style, arguing that rat control often reveals broader urban policy strengths and failures. Ethics, appetite, and the human-rat boundary (Priority: 3/5): The episode explores the uneasy line between animals we cherish and those we kill, including discussion of rat birth control, humane treatment, and even whether rats could be eaten as food.

Key Arguments: New York’s rat problem is fundamentally driven by accessible food waste and urban habitat, especially trash bags left on sidewalks. Poison should be a last resort because it endangers wildlife, pets, and children, and can kill animals indirectly through the food chain. Traps can work only when deployed by experienced professionals; many common traps, especially glue traps, are cruel and poorly suited to serious infestations. There is no single rat solution in a dense, open urban system; effective control requires an integrated citywide strategy. Measurement matters because cities cannot improve what they cannot reliably count, yet rat census methods remain weak. Containerizing trash is the biggest practical swing at rat control because it reduces food access on a massive scale. Rat birth control sounds appealing but is hard to deliver consistently across open urban rat populations. Prevention, public education, and early intervention are more effective than reactive extermination once colonies are established. Rats thrive where human systems fail: poor waste management, clutter, and neglected infrastructure. The rat problem exposes deeper questions about how cities govern cleanliness, public space, and accountability.

Data Points: New York trash volume: 44 million pounds per day - Jessica Tisch explains how much trash New Yorkers leave on curbs daily. Share of trash that is human food: One third - Tisch says much of what is left out is rat food. Rat gestation period: About 21 days - Kathy Karate describes rats’ reproductive speed. Litter size: 8 to 12 pups - Karate explains rat fecundity. Female breeding age: About 3 months - Karate on how quickly new rats reproduce. Wild New York rat life expectancy: 8 to 12 months - Karate contrasts wild rats with lab rats. Laboratory rat life expectancy: About 3 years - Karate contrasts conditions in the wild and lab. New York trash containerization target: 70% by November 2024 - Tisch says legislation and administrative code would require most waste to be in containers. Large building container size: About 4 cubic yards - Tisch describes the fixed on-street containers for bigger buildings. Estimated parking-space impact: About 3% citywide - Tisch says the larger containers will displace some parking. Rat sighting reports in Alberta: About 500 per year - Karen Wickerson receives many reports from the public. Legitimate Alberta rat reports: Around 30 per year - Only a small fraction of reports are confirmed rats. Alberta area: Over 250,000 square miles - Shown to be roughly the size of Texas. Flacco the owl case: Killed after 9 months outside - The escaped zoo owl later died with debilitating rat poison in his system. Typical rat summit participants: Leaders from Boston, D.C., Seattle and beyond - The summit convened municipal and academic experts from multiple cities.

Pivotal Quotes: "“You would want to start first with not attracting the rats with food or clutter in the first place. Poisons are probably the last resort that should be approached when it comes to rat control.”" — Bobby Corrigan: Corrigan explains why poisoning is not the best first-line response. "“We leave 44 million pounds of trash out on our curbs… One third of the material in those black bags is human food. And unfortunately, human food is also rat food.”" — Jessica Tisch: Tisch argues that trash management is the core rat-control issue in New York. "“Their fecundity is their superpower.”" — Kathy Karate: Karate describes why rats multiply so effectively in cities.

Implications: Cities that want fewer rats must redesign waste systems, improve measurement, and treat pest control as infrastructure policy, not just extermination. New York’s success will depend on whether trash containerization changes behavior at scale.

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