#69 — The Russia Connection

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Sam Harris and Anne Applebaum examine Trump’s authoritarian style of lying, comparing it to tactics used by Putin and other illiberal leaders to erode trust in truth and media. Applebaum explains her anti-communist, center-right background, argues Trump has damaged U.S. soft power and alliances, and notes that America’s institutional response to him will shape global perceptions of democracy’s resilience.

Main Topics: Applebaum’s background and political orientation (Priority: 5/5): Applebaum traces her career from reporting on the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe to writing on gulags, Sovietization, and propaganda, explaining that her views remain center-right even as the right in the U.S., U.K., and Poland has shifted. Trump’s style of lying and authoritarian communication (Priority: 5/5): The conversation focuses on Trump’s pattern of obvious, rapid-fire falsehoods, which Harris and Applebaum argue is not ordinary political spin but a deliberate tactic to overwhelm reality testing and degrade public trust. Comparisons with Russia, Venezuela, Turkey, and communist regimes (Priority: 5/5): Applebaum distinguishes Trump from totalitarian systems that use violence and coercion, but says his methods resemble Putin’s use of proliferating false narratives to make truth seem unknowable and to pollute the information space. Effects on media, public discourse, and civic fatigue (Priority: 4/5): They discuss how the pace and scale of Trump’s falsehoods exhaust journalists and citizens, encouraging withdrawal from politics, normalization of lying, and the creation of an alternate reality within public life. Conservative defenses of Trump and revolutionary ‘wrecking ball’ logic (Priority: 3/5): Applebaum summarizes the argument that Trump should be tolerated to achieve conservative policy goals, and contrasts this with more radical ‘burn it down’ thinking associated with Bannon or Thiel, which she calls historically disastrous. Damage to U.S. soft power and international standing (Priority: 5/5): Applebaum argues Trump’s hostility to allies, admiration for dictators, and attacks on institutions weaken America’s influence abroad, undermine the appeal of U.S. norms, and signal permissiveness to illiberal actors worldwide. Russia investigation and Europe’s perspective (Priority: 4/5): The discussion ends by noting that Europe is intensely aware of Russian influence operations and will watch the U.S. response to the investigation as a test of whether American democracy can still hold a liar-president to account.

Key Arguments: Applebaum’s historical work on communist regimes gave her a framework for recognizing authoritarian tactics in Trump’s rhetoric and campaign behavior. Trump’s lying is not simply exaggeration; it is a strategic assault on the possibility of shared truth, similar to propaganda systems that flood the zone with contradictions. Unlike Soviet totalitarianism, Trump does not enforce belief through police power, but he can still corrupt the information environment through sheer volume and shamelessness. Putin-style disinformation aims less to persuade than to create confusion, making people conclude that truth is inaccessible. Trump’s attacks on allies, media, and democratic norms erode U.S. soft power, which depends on credibility, transparency, education, and cultural influence. A major danger is that citizens and institutions will adapt by disengaging, compartmentalizing public and private morality, or pretending to believe falsehoods to survive politically. Some conservative defenders justify Trump instrumentally, arguing that policy wins and conservative judges matter more than his personal corruption and instability. Applebaum believes Europe sees Trump as part of a broader global pattern of democratic backsliding and Russian influence, not as an isolated American oddity.

Data Points: Conversation length referenced in addendum: about 10 minutes - Harris says an addendum was recorded after new developments in the Russia investigation. Applebaum’s career start: 1988-1989 - She describes beginning as a stringer in Warsaw and entering journalism around this period. Pulitzer Prize for nonfiction: 2004 - Her book Gulag: A History won the Pulitzer Prize. Years after the war referenced in Sovietization book: 1940s and 1950s - She says she wrote about communist parties and Sovietization in this era. Countries explicitly named as connected to Applebaum: 3 - She says she remains connected to Poland, the United States, and Britain. Podcast production model: ad free - Harris notes the show is supported entirely by subscribers.

Pivotal Quotes: "I think we fight in the trench we are given." — Anne Applebaum: Applebaum explains why she uses Twitter as a political battleground against Trump. "He wants to create reality and not be beholden to reality." — Anne Applebaum: She describes Trump’s style of lying as a direct attempt to replace shared facts with self-authored narratives. "You can sort of pollute the information space just by lying." — Anne Applebaum: She summarizes the propaganda mechanism she sees in Trump and Putin-like systems.

Implications: The episode frames Trump as a stress test for liberal democracy: if institutions, media, and voters can absorb sustained deception, democratic resilience may hold; if not, truth, alliances, and civic trust could erode further.