Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Anne Applebaum traces Ukraine’s modern national identity, Russian imperial contempt, Bolshevik repression, and Stalin’s deliberate escalation of collectivization into the Holodomor. The discussion frames the famine as both a mass atrocity and a colonial project aimed at destroying Ukrainian nationhood, while noting the long historical memory that connects past violence to today’s war.
Main Topics: The making of Ukrainian nationhood (Priority: 5/5): Applebaum explains that by the 19th century Ukraine had a distinct language, literature, press, theater, and intellectual tradition. Ukrainian identity developed as a grassroots, anti-imperial movement against both Russian and Polish domination. 1917 revolution and the collapse of imperial control (Priority: 5/5): After the February Revolution, Ukrainian leaders around the Central Rada and historian Mikhailo Hrushevsky moved toward independence. The Bolsheviks responded with invasion and repression, triggering civil-war chaos and peasant revolt. Bolshevik imperial continuity (Priority: 5/5): The episode argues that Lenin, Stalin, and other Bolshevik leaders inherited Tsarist imperial assumptions. Ukraine was viewed as a strategic grain-producing territory, not a legitimate nation, and was first attacked militarily, then co-opted through a Soviet republic. Collectivization, de-kulakization, and peasant resistance (Priority: 5/5): Stalin’s drive to collectivize agriculture treated peasants as a backward class to be stripped of land and power. Ukrainian villagers resisted through women’s protests, armed defiance, and slaughtering livestock, but were crushed by state violence. The Holodomor as deliberate famine and genocide (Priority: 5/5): Applebaum describes how Stalin turned the broader collectivization crisis into a targeted famine in Ukraine: borders were closed, food confiscated, movement restricted, and the term 'famine' suppressed. She argues it meets the original definition of genocide because it aimed to destroy Ukraine as a nation. Memory, propaganda, and historical denial (Priority: 4/5): The discussion highlights Soviet censorship, manipulated statistics, and foreign correspondents like Walter Duranty who downplayed the catastrophe, while Gareth Jones documented it. The famine remains politically contested, especially in Russia, and deeply embedded in Ukrainian memory.
Key Arguments: Russian imperial elites and Bolsheviks alike refused to see Ukrainians as a separate people, which helped doom anti-Bolshevik alliances and later enabled repression. Ukrainian identity was not invented in 1917; it had already developed in the 19th century through language, print culture, theater, and nationalist intellectuals. The Bolsheviks initially allowed limited Ukrainian autonomy and culture, but this was a tactical concession rather than real self-determination. Stalin’s collectivization was driven by a colonial logic: extracting wealth from peasants to fund industrialization, just as empires exploit colonies. The famine was not simply a byproduct of policy failure; in Ukraine it was intensified deliberately through blacklists, travel bans, and food seizures. Soviet authorities knew people were starving but censored discussion, altered records, and used collaborators and secret police to conceal and deepen the crisis. The Holodomor targeted politically active regions of Ukraine, especially areas that had resisted Bolshevik rule earlier, linking famine to anti-national repression. The event’s later recognition as genocide depends on intent to destroy a nation, not on killing every single member of that nation. Western admiration for Soviet modernization, and journalistic self-interest, helped obscure the famine in real time. Ukrainian memory of the famine persisted through families, diaries, and monuments, shaping the country’s modern politics and its response to Russian aggression.
Data Points: Period of Holodomor deaths: 1932-1934 - Timeframe discussed for the targeted famine in Ukraine Estimated dead: 3.9–4 million - Ukrainian demographic estimates of famine deaths Estimated dead including unborn babies: 4.5 million - Alternative figure mentioned that adds births not realized Proportion of population killed: 1 in 8 - Described as every eighth person in the region dying of hunger Pogrom victims: about 50,000 Ukrainian Jews - Number cited for anti-Jewish violence during the civil-war era Kiev occupation: about 18 times - Kiev reportedly changed hands repeatedly during the 1918-1919 chaos Collectivization era: 1927-1928 onward - Stalin’s push for collectivization and tighter state control First famine wave: 1929-1931 - Broader Soviet food shortages triggered by collectivization Walter Duranty prize: Pulitzer Prize - He won for pro-collectivization reporting while withholding famine coverage Recognition by Ukrainian government: 2006 - Ukraine formally defined the Holodomor as genocide
Pivotal Quotes: "The problem is Ukraine." — Anne Applebaum: Explaining Stalin’s decision to intensify the famine in Ukraine rather than retreat from collectivization "They never invade anybody. They only liberate their fraternal, you know, Bolshevik friends." — Anne Applebaum: Ironically summarizing the Soviet/Russian claim that military occupation was 'liberation' "It was an attempt to destroy Ukraine as a nation, to wipe it from the map" — Anne Applebaum: Her conclusion on why the Holodomor qualifies as genocide
Implications: The episode links historical empire, censorship, and resource extraction to present-day Russian-Ukrainian conflict. For listeners, it reframes the Holodomor as a political project of nation-destruction whose memory still shapes Ukrainian identity and resistance.