Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Anne Applebaum traces Ukraine’s 20th-century trauma from the Nazi-Soviet partition of Poland through wartime occupation, Soviet normalization, post-Soviet independence, and Russia’s repeated attempts to keep Ukraine subordinate or reclaim it. The discussion argues that modern Ukrainian nationalism is rooted not just in identity but in anti-corruption, democracy, and Europe, while Putin’s war is the latest imperial project built on historical distortion and coercion.
Main Topics: Nazi-Soviet partition and wartime destruction of Ukraine (Priority: 5/5): The episode begins with the 1939 invasion of Poland by Germany and the USSR, followed by Sovietization, then the German occupation of Ukraine and the mass murder of Jews and Ukrainians. Applebaum emphasizes that Ukraine became a central site of the Holocaust and repeated catastrophe. Postwar Sovietization, Russification, and resistance (Priority: 5/5): After 1943, Ukraine is reabsorbed into the Soviet system, with population transfers, state control, and gradual Russification—especially in the east. Ukrainian resistance persists in the west and later in Gulag rebellions, preserving a national movement under repression. Khrushchev, Khrushchev-era normalization, and the hidden legacy of Stalinism (Priority: 4/5): Khrushchev’s rise after Stalin includes de-Stalinization rhetoric, limited openness, and symbolic gestures such as transferring Crimea to Ukraine. Yet the famine, repression, and his own role in them remain unacknowledged publicly. Chernobyl and the rebirth of Ukrainian nationalism (Priority: 5/5): The secrecy surrounding Chernobyl becomes a catalyst for public anger and national awakening. Rukh emerges as the first legal Ukrainian national movement in decades, linking truth-telling, sovereignty, and independence. Independence, oligarchy, and the struggle over Europe (Priority: 4/5): Independence in 1991 is portrayed as both anti-Soviet and pro-democratic, with broad public support. But post-Soviet politics are marred by oligarchy, corruption, and Russian pressure, especially around the Black Sea Fleet and Crimea. Orange Revolution, Maidan, and Russia’s reaction (Priority: 5/5): Stolen elections, poisoned opposition figures, and Yanukovych’s rejection of the EU trade deal trigger mass protests. Applebaum argues these are Ukrainian-led democratic movements, not Western-engineered plots, and they terrify Putin because they model an alternative to authoritarian rule. 2014 Crimea annexation and the current war (Priority: 5/5): Russia’s seizure of Crimea and proxy war in eastern Ukraine are described as rehearsed occupation tactics using fake separatists and criminal networks. Applebaum concludes that Putin still aims to conquer all of Ukraine, making a negotiated settlement unlikely while that goal remains unchanged.
Key Arguments: Ukraine has repeatedly been targeted by both Nazi and Soviet imperial violence, making its modern political identity inseparable from survival after catastrophe. The Holocaust in Ukraine was centered more in open-air mass shootings and village killings than in camps, making the region a core site of genocidal violence. Khrushchev’s Ukrainian origins did not make him an advocate of full Ukrainian autonomy; he normalized Soviet rule while leaving deeper grievances unresolved. Chernobyl exposed the Soviet habit of concealment, reviving memories of the famine and helping spark mass Ukrainian nationalism. Independent Ukraine emerged with strong support not only for sovereignty but also for democracy, capitalism, and European integration. Post-Soviet Ukrainian politics were shaped by oligarchic corruption, but public protest repeatedly pushed against Russian influence and authoritarianism. The Orange Revolution and Maidan were driven primarily by Ukrainians themselves; Western actors mattered, but they did not create the movements. Putin’s “Ukraine is a fake state” argument is presented as imperial propaganda, not historical analysis, and is used to justify conquest. Russia’s 2014 and 2022 actions are continuity with earlier Soviet imperial methods: covert forces, deniable occupation, and manufactured local proxies. A negotiated peace is unlikely while Moscow still seeks all of Ukraine; territorial compromise would only become conceivable after Russia abandons imperial aims.
Data Points: Poland invasion date: September 1, 1939 - Germany invades Poland at the start of World War II Soviet invasion date of Poland: September 17, 1939 - USSR enters Poland under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact Famine death toll: 4 million to 5 million - Deaths discussed in connection with the Soviet famine before World War II Ukrainian wartime loss: about 7 million citizens - Total loss during the Second World War, including Jews, soldiers, and civilians Chernobyl disaster date: April 26, 1986 - Plant explosion that later fueled nationalist mobilization Population affected/endangered by Chernobyl: 3 million affected; close to 30 million endangered - Areas and people impacted by radiation and water supply risk Ukrainian independence referendum support: about 90% yes - Popular vote in 1991 strongly favored independence and a western orientation Ukrainian parliamentary vote on independence: 346 for, 5 abstain, 2 against - August 1991 vote declaring independence in view of mortal danger Crimea referendum turnout/support: 99% turnout and 99% support - Disputed 2014 referendum after Russian takeover Kyiv protest timeline: Months-long protest in late 2013 to 2014 - Maidan demonstrations following rejection of EU association deal Putin’s invasions of Chechnya: 1999 and a second Chechen war - Used as evidence of his reassertion of imperial power Georgia invasion: 2008 - Another stage in Russia’s imperial resurgence under Putin
Pivotal Quotes: "many tens of millions of people in this territory will become superfluous and will have to die or emigrate to Siberia" — Anne Applebaum: Describing Nazi planning for occupied eastern territory and the murderous logic behind the Hunger Plan "this policy of hiding the truth about our nation is genocidal" — Ukrainian poet (quoted by Anne Applebaum): Reaction to Chernobyl and the Soviet suppression of information "If Ukraine isn't a real state... then there are people. And then we are going to go in and save them" — Anne Applebaum paraphrasing Putin: Explaining the imperial logic behind Putin’s 2021 historical essay and the 2022 invasion
Implications: The episode frames the Russia-Ukraine war as a long imperial struggle, not a new dispute. For listeners, the key takeaway is that Ukrainian sovereignty, democracy, and European alignment remain under threat unless Russia’s imperial ambitions are curtailed.