The Vergecast
The Vergecast

A better keyboard than QWERTY

Today on the flagship podcast of alternate keyboard layouts: 03:36 - The Verge’s David Pierce talks to Jonas Hietala about his ultra-custom keyboard he built from the ground up to fit his specific needs. Jonas Hietala: The T-34 keyboard layout 30:40 - The Verge’s Tom Warren explains the next phase o

Featured Speakers

Vox Media Podcast Network HostTom Warren Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode opens with a deep dive into Jonas Yetela’s two-year journey to redesign his keyboard around RSI reduction, extreme customization, and Vim-centric workflows, then shifts to Microsoft’s internal reshuffling around Windows, Surface, and AI. The hosts and Tom Warren argue that Microsoft’s AI strategy is now more about integrating Copilot and new ARM hardware than winning Bing, with May’s Surface event seen as the key reveal.

Main Topics: Personal keyboard reinvention and RSI avoidance (Priority: 5/5): Jonas describes how hand pain, repetitive strain injury, and a broken hand pushed him to abandon conventional keyboards in favor of a highly personalized setup designed to reduce strain and improve comfort. The rabbit hole of alternative keyboard layouts (Priority: 5/5): The conversation explores the logic behind layouts like Dvorak, Colemak, Workman, and Beakl, including minimizing finger travel, balancing hands, and moving work to the thumbs. Vim, layers, and the limits of one-size-fits-all input (Priority: 4/5): Jonas emphasizes that his workflow is shaped by Vim and programmable layers, making his keyboard a deeply individualized tool rather than a general-purpose standard. Microsoft’s org changes and AI restructuring (Priority: 5/5): Tom Warren explains how Panos Panay’s departure led to a split between Windows and Surface leadership, and how Microsoft later reversed course as it centralized AI under Mustafa Suleyman and Microsoft AI. What Microsoft means by an AI PC (Priority: 5/5): The discussion questions Microsoft’s marketing language around AI PCs, highlighting NPUs, Copilot integration, and the unclear consumer value of current hardware beyond cloud-based AI features. May Surface launch as a litmus test for Windows on Arm (Priority: 4/5): Microsoft’s upcoming consumer Surface devices, expected to use Qualcomm Snapdragon chips, are framed as a critical test of whether Windows on Arm and local AI features can finally deliver on long-promised performance gains. Netflix recommendation signals and thumbs ratings (Priority: 3/5): The hotline segment explains how Netflix interprets thumbs, watch time, skips, searches, and reminders, and advises using one thumbs up for a decent documentary rather than a thumbs down.

Key Arguments: Standard QWERTY is not optimized for comfort or efficiency; alternatives can reduce movement, balance workload, and better fit specific users. Keyboard optimization becomes a practical health issue when repetitive strain injury or pain makes default layouts unsustainable. Programmable keyboards and remapped modifiers offer high-value improvements without requiring a full relearning of typing. Jonas’s layout works because it is built around his specific usage, especially Vim shortcuts, not because it is universally superior. Microsoft’s AI push has been most successful in Office and Teams, where Copilot has tangible productivity uses, not in Bing as a consumer brand. Microsoft’s recent org changes suggest it was dissatisfied with its earlier AI execution and is regrouping around a more centralized AI strategy. The real test for Microsoft’s AI PC vision is whether local silicon and Windows features can deliver compelling, non-gimmicky value. For Netflix, watching behavior is more important than ratings; a thumbs down is a strong rejection signal and should be used sparingly.

Data Points: Keyboard layout redesign time: 2 years - Jonas spent roughly two years iterating on his custom keyboard layout and setup. Typing speed: about 120 words per minute - Jonas mentions being a fast typist, around 120 WPM. Ferris keyboard keys: 34 keys total - His Ferris keyboard uses two panels of 17 keys each. Surface business products: 2 devices - Microsoft released Surface Pro 10 for Business and Surface Laptop 6 for Business. Microsoft AI hiring move: Mustafa Suleyman hired as CEO of Microsoft AI - Nadella created a new AI leadership structure and brought in the former DeepMind co-founder. Qualcomm chip family: Snapdragon X Elite / Elite X - Upcoming consumer Surface devices are expected to use Qualcomm ARM chips. Target adoption rate: 50% of new laptops by end of 2026 - Tom Warren says Microsoft wants half of new laptops to include the relevant AI/MPU hardware by then. LinkedIn Ads promo spend: $250 - Advertiser read offers a $250 first-campaign spend with a $250 credit. Wealthfront APY: 4% APY - Advertiser read promotes Wealthfront cash accounts with 4% APY on uninvested cash.

Pivotal Quotes: "I just want it to feel good for me." — Jonas Yetela: Explaining why he customized his keyboard for personal comfort rather than universal appeal. "What is the AI PC story inside of this thing? So, yeah, me neither." — David Pierce: Questioning Microsoft’s unclear marketing around AI PCs and what makes them meaningfully different. "A co-pilot for every person." — Tom Warren: Describing the likely Microsoft slogan for the next phase of its AI strategy.

Implications: For listeners and the industry, the episode suggests both keyboards and PCs are overdue for rethinking: input devices can be individualized for health and workflow, and Microsoft’s next hardware wave will reveal whether “AI PC” is a real product shift or just branding.

🔓 Sign Up for Unlimited Episode Search

About The Vergecast

The Vergecast is the flagship podcast from The Verge about small gadgets, Big Tech, and everything in between. Every Friday, hosts Nilay Patel and David Pierce hang out and make sense of the week’s most important technology news. And every Tuesday, David leads a selection of The Verge’s expert staffers in an exploration of how gadgets and software affect our lives – and which ones you should bring into yours.

View all episodes from The Vergecast