Against the Rules
Against the Rules

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Can everyone be coached — or are some people beyond help? * The transformative power of coaching is put to the test as Michael enlists a coach to help him tackle his greatest fear. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy inform

Featured Speakers

Michael Lewis HostMichael Lewis GuestBette Midler Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Michael Lewis closes a season about coaching by hiring a voice coach, Eric Vitro, to confront his lifelong fear of singing. Through lessons with Vitro and stories from Emily Blunt, Bette Midler, and others, the episode argues that great coaches transform performance by building trust, shifting mindset, and helping people become more of themselves—often most powerfully when they’re vulnerable or stuck.

Main Topics: The value of coaching (Priority: 5/5): The episode argues that skilled coaches can have outsized effects, especially when they help people in vulnerable or difficult situations improve beyond what they thought possible. Michael Lewis’s personal singing phobia (Priority: 5/5): Lewis explains that a childhood school-play incident created a lasting fear of singing, making his own coaching experience a test case for the season’s theme. Eric Vitro’s coaching method (Priority: 5/5): Vitro’s approach blends breathing, vocal exercises, self-awareness, and reassurance; he emphasizes practice, body support, and finding the right artistic fit rather than forcing perfection. Celebrity testimony and trust (Priority: 4/5): Emily Blunt and Bette Midler describe how Vitro helped them overcome fear, prepare for major performances, and trust a coach who combines rigor with care. Mindset over mechanics (Priority: 4/5): The episode repeatedly stresses that singing improves not only through technique but through identity shift—seeing oneself as a singer and reducing self-defeating thoughts. Coaching as mutual reward (Priority: 3/5): Vitro explains that coaching is fulfilling because the coach gets energy from others’ progress, reviews, and breakthroughs, not just from personal performance.

Key Arguments: Good coaches can have huge effects, and who gets them matters. The people who most need coaching are often in the weakest position, where a coach can do the most good. Trust is essential; without trust, a coach cannot help. Progress comes from repeated practice and from accepting that improvement is possible. A coach should help people discover what they already have and expand it, rather than force them into the wrong style or role. The mind can be as important as the voice: thinking of yourself as a singer changes how you perform. A gifted coach may shift attention from self-consciousness to story, expression, and identity. Coaching is most effective when it makes the student feel seen, safe, and challenged rather than embarrassed or abused.

Data Points: Season structure: Final episode - Lewis says this is the last episode of the show and reflects on the season’s lessons. Timeframe: 3 days - Lewis says that after three days into a speaking tour, he may lose his voice. Duration of coaching: Next few years - Emily Blunt says she worked with Eric Vitro for the next few years after first meeting him. Performance streak: 2 years without missing a single performance - Bette Midler credits Vitro with helping her complete her Vegas run without missing a show. Age reference: 5th grade - Both Lewis and Vitro trace formative experiences about singing back to fifth grade. Lesson frequency: Once a week or so - Bette Midler says Eric came to Vegas about weekly and also coached her by phone. Practice frequency: Almost daily practice - Lewis says that after months of lessons he was practicing nearly every day. Lesson duration: About 3 months - Lewis says he reached a stage of buy-in after about three months of weekly lessons and near-daily practice. Household reaction radius: About 30 yards - Lewis jokes that anyone within 30 yards of his singing looked worried.

Pivotal Quotes: "Good coaches can have huge effects and so it really matters who gets them." — Michael Lewis: Lewis states his first takeaway from the season early in the episode. "If you don't trust your coach, you're not going to make it." — Bette Midler: Midler explains why Eric Vitro’s impact depended on mutual trust. "How do you like yourself? Singing." — Bette Midler: Midler reframes the issue as self-perception rather than technique.

Implications: The episode suggests coaching works best when it changes identity, not just skill. For creatives and industries, the lesson is to value trusted mentors who help people grow from weakness into confidence.

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About Against the Rules

Michael Lewis’s best-selling book The Big Short is now 15 years old. The Oscar-winning movie based on it came out a decade ago. To mark the occasion, Lewis has narrated a new audiobook of The Big Short. Here on his podcast, he and co-host Lidia Jean Kott are thinking about the legacy of the book, the movie, and the financial crisis of 2008. Michael catches up with the director of the movie, Adam McKay, as well as some of the real-life characters depicted by the likes of Ryan Gosling, Steve Carell and Jeremy Strong. He also calls up journalists, economists, and historians to make sense of the 2008 financial crisis and to understand how it still affects the world today.

View all episodes from Against the Rules