An astrogeologic experience with Kirby Runyon

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: This episode follows Planetary Radio host Matt Kaplan and geologist Kirby Runyon on an astrogeology tour of New Mexico, showing how Earth’s deserts, dunes, volcanoes, and craters serve as analogs for Mars, the Moon, Titan, and beyond. The conversation emphasizes field geology, serendipitous discovery, and public education as tools for understanding other worlds and inspiring future explorers and teachers.

Main Topics: Earth as an analog for planetary exploration: The episode centers on how landscapes in New Mexico resemble features on Mars, the Moon, and other worlds, making Earth a practical training ground for planetary science and mission prep. Geology as detective work: Kirby Runyon frames geology as forensic science: reading rocks and landforms to reconstruct past events and environmental history. New Mexico field sites and planetary parallels: White Sands, Kilbourne Hole, and the Carrizozo Lava Flow are used to illustrate dunes, maars, xenoliths, basalt flows, lava tubes, and crater processes relevant to planetary bodies. Serendipity and astronaut field training: The tour highlights flexible execution in field science, including unexpected rock finds and how astronauts train to make real-time observations in unfamiliar terrain. Public engagement and informed enthusiasm: Runyon’s shift toward guiding tours and teaching non-specialists shows a larger goal of making planetary science accessible and emotionally compelling for broad audiences, especially teachers. Personal inspiration and community: Guests and callers discuss how space science connects diverse people, builds perspective, and can be transformative across age, background, and profession. Preview of future exploration: The episode closes by teeing up next week’s interview on NASA’s Dragonfly mission to Titan, reinforcing the show’s broader focus on comparative planetology and exploration.

Key Arguments: Earth’s varied geology is the best available stand-in for other worlds, helping scientists prepare for missions and understand planetary processes. Field geology requires boots-on-the-ground observation; images alone are not enough to fully interpret a landscape. Landforms can tell a deep history: dunes, craters, lava flows, and ash deposits preserve evidence of past winds, eruptions, impacts, and tectonics. NASA astronaut geology training benefits from flexibility, because unexpected observations often produce the best science. Public-facing tours can translate planetary science into accessible, memorable experiences and may inspire future scientists and teachers. Space exploration and planetary geology unite people from different backgrounds by providing a shared sense of wonder and perspective.

Data Points: White Sands gypsum dunefield size: over 700 square kilometers (about 275 square miles) - Describes the scale of the White Sands National Park dune field Kilbourne Hole age: about 47,000 years ago - Formation age of the maar crater in southern New Mexico Kilbourne Hole duration of formation: about 1 to 10 years - Estimated time span of the steam-driven explosion event Carrizozo Lava Flow age: about 5,000 years ago / 5,200 years ago - Young volcanic flow discussed as a Mars analog Carrizozo Lava Flow length: 70 kilometers / 44 miles; also described as 75 kilometers / 45 miles - Length of the lava flow in the episode’s descriptions Carrizozo Lava Flow emplacement duration: about 30 years - Time over which the tube-fed lava flow was emplaced Rio Grande Rift onset: about 35 million years ago - Timing of regional rifting that helped shape New Mexico volcanism Acceleration of rifting: between 10 and 25 million years ago - Period when rifting intensified in the region Major volcanic activity in region: from 1.2 million to a few tens of thousands of years ago - Window of recent volcanic eruptions in the area Astrogeology tour participant age: 84, turning 85 in February - Paul Mills shares his age during the trip Matt Kaplan/host discussion of ISS assembly: 42 assembly flights - Bruce Betts cites the International Space Station construction total ISS assembly split: 37 on U.S. space shuttles and 5 on Russian Proton Soyuz - Further detail on ISS assembly flights Matt Kaplan’s 0-g experience: 16 zero-gravity flights - Kirby Runyon notes his flight experience Matt Kaplan’s altered-gravity experience: almost 20 minutes in moon gravity, over an hour in zero gravity, about 10 minutes in Mars gravity - Runyon’s travel and analog flight history

Pivotal Quotes: "Geology is a forensic science." — Kirby Runyon: Runyon explains how scientists reconstruct past events from the rock record "The ability to answer scientific questions you're not smart enough to ask." — Kirby Runyon: He defines serendipity during field science at Kilbourne Hole "Space brings us together." — Shirley Mullen: She reflects on how space serves as a bridge across disciplines and people

Implications: The episode argues that planetary science is not confined to telescopes and spacecraft; it also grows through fieldwork, public engagement, and education on Earth. This approach can broaden participation, improve mission training, and inspire the next generation of explorers.