And that is all for Trade Talks

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: This episode is a playful farewell and transition for Trade Talks, as host Chad Bown interviews Samaya Keynes about her move from The Economist to chief economist at the U.S. State Department. Beyond the banter, they reflect on changing trade policy, the rise of industrial policy, and the show’s history, while closing with heartfelt thanks to the Peterson Institute, production staff, guests, and listeners.

Main Topics: Samaya Keynes’s career transition (Priority: 5/5): Keynes reveals she is leaving her role and joining the Biden-Harris administration as chief economist at the U.S. State Department, with limited comment on the specifics of the job beyond supply chains, economic statecraft, and diplomacy. Trade policy’s changing landscape (Priority: 5/5): The hosts discuss how trade policy has shifted from the Trump-era tariff focus toward industrial policy, subsidies, export controls, and broader economic statecraft. The future of Trade Talks (Priority: 4/5): The conversation includes joking speculation about who might host next and Keynes’s plans for a new nerdy economics podcast at the Financial Times. The podcast’s legacy and institutional support (Priority: 5/5): Bown gives a detailed thank-you to the Peterson Institute and its staff for allowing editorial freedom, financial support, and production help over the life of the show. Gratitude toward guests and listeners (Priority: 4/5): The episode ends with appreciation for the many guests who appeared on the show and the audience that engaged through social media, email, and in-person interactions. Humor and mutual teasing as a defining feature (Priority: 3/5): Much of the episode is framed as a comedic handoff, with jokes about trade policy, Taylor Swift, and Keynes ‘taking over’ the show again.

Key Arguments: Trade policy is no longer centered mainly on tariffs; it is increasingly expressed through industrial policy tools such as subsidies and export controls. The new State Department role is about more than trade alone and will include supply chains, economic statecraft, and diplomacy. Trade policy remains intellectually exciting despite jokes that it is boring. The Peterson Institute’s support was essential to the podcast’s success because it provided institutional, intellectual, moral, and financial backing without requiring advertisers. The show’s value came from conversations with leading experts and from listener engagement, which the host says he consistently noticed and appreciated.

Data Points: Years since Trade Talks began: 2017 - Bown references the year he and Keynes created the podcast. Approximate number of episodes since Keynes left: 42 episodes - Keynes says they produced about 42 episodes in the couple of years after her departure. Total Trade Talks episodes: 200 episodes - Bown says Peterson supported the show for 200 episodes. Share of world population under authoritarian populists: about one third - This statistic is mentioned in the opening commentary on democracy and autocracy.

Pivotal Quotes: "The new job is I am going to be the chief economist at the U.S. State Department in the Biden-Harris administration." — Samaya Keynes: Keynes announces her new role after teasing from Bown. "Today, it's much more about industrial policy. If you want to look for trade policy, it's through things like that, subsidies, export controls, in that vein." — Samaya Keynes: She explains how trade policy has evolved in recent years. "There is no better place to work than Peterson." — Chad Bown: Bown thanks the Peterson Institute for its long-term support of the podcast.

Implications: The episode signals a shift in trade-and-economic-policy discourse toward industrial policy and diplomacy. It also marks the end of an era for the podcast while underscoring the importance of institutional support, expert access, and audience loyalty.