Episode Summary
Executive Summary: The episode centers on Apple’s court loss over App Store anti-steering rules, with Casey and Kevin arguing the ruling could force real competition and cheaper prices for developers and users. They then interview Karen Hao about her book on OpenAI’s origins, scale-first strategy, and global extraction costs. The show ends with a lighter segment on AI-generated “Italian brain rot,” using it to explore how AI slop is becoming a weirdly creative internet form.
Main Topics: Apple’s App Store injunction and anti-steering rules (Priority: 5/5): The hosts break down Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers’ scathing ruling against Apple, which found the company failed to comply with a prior injunction and intentionally preserved anti-competitive revenue streams. Apple’s malicious compliance and possible perjury (Priority: 5/5): They discuss how Apple responded to the 2021 injunction with a 27% fee, scare screens, tracking of outside purchases, and internal planning that the judge said may amount to lying under oath. Developer relief and changing App Store economics (Priority: 4/5): Examples like Kindle, Spotify, and Patreon illustrate how external links and reduced fees could let developers sell directly to users and potentially lower prices. Karen Hao on OpenAI and the cost of scale (Priority: 5/5): The interview frames OpenAI as a company that shifted from nonprofit idealism to a scale-driven, power-concentrating enterprise with major social and environmental costs. AI governance, accountability, and democratic oversight (Priority: 4/5): Hao argues AI should be governed across the entire supply chain—data, compute, models, and labor—with public input, opt-in/opt-out rights, and stronger human-rights protections. Italian brain rot as AI-generated internet culture (Priority: 3/5): The final segment examines absurd TikTok/Instagram/YouTube memes built with AI video tools, suggesting AI may spawn new forms of participatory, low-stakes entertainment.
Key Arguments: Apple’s App Store rules acted like a gatekeeping tax on digital commerce, not merely a safety measure, because they made it difficult or impossible for developers to tell users about cheaper external payment options. The judge found Apple’s revised rules were designed to maintain revenue rather than increase competition, and the opinion’s internal emails suggested deliberate obstruction rather than good-faith compliance. For developers, external links and reduced commissions could restore direct customer relationships and meaningfully change the economics of apps like Kindle, Spotify, and Patreon. Karen Hao argues OpenAI and similar AI labs function like empires: they extract data, labor, money, water, and electricity from communities while framing the project as progress for all humanity. Hao rejects the idea that current AI development must rely on massive scale and argues more task-specific, resource-efficient approaches could deliver benefits with fewer harms. The hosts suggest that while AI safety concerns may be sincere, the field’s biggest blind spot is its focus on hypothetical future risks at the expense of immediate harms already affecting workers, communities, and the environment. Italian brain rot shows that AI-generated content can be playful and creative, not just low-quality slop, and may point toward new internet-native entertainment forms.
Data Points: Apple external-link fee: 27% - Apple’s revised App Store system charged developers 27% on purchases made after users clicked out of iOS apps. Apple standard commission: 30% - The long-standing App Store commission Apple charges on apps and in-app purchases. Judge’s fee reduction: 3% less - Apple’s external-link fee was only 3 percentage points below the normal 30% rate. Perjury referral: 1 Apple executive - Judge Gonzalez Rogers referred Vice President of Finance Alex Roman for potential criminal prosecution for perjury. Original injunction year: 2021 - The California judge first ordered Apple to allow apps to link users to outside payment options in 2021. Timeline for fee decision: July 2023 - Business documents showed major components of Apple’s 27% plan were determined months before the January 16, 2024 rollout. Revised system effective date: January 16, 2024 - The date Apple’s revised external-link rules went into effect, according to testimony discussed in the segment. Apple revenue: $95.4 billion - Apple’s most recent quarterly revenue, cited to show the company remains highly profitable despite criticism. Apple revenue growth: 5% year over year - Year-over-year growth in Apple’s quarterly revenue. OpenAI worker years: 3 years - Karen Hao said OpenAI stopped talking to her for three years after her early profile/coverage. OpenAI-backed profit stake: unlimited profits initially proposed - The abandoned restructuring would have let the nonprofit receive an unlimited upside if OpenAI became extremely valuable. AI content views: 45 million views - The Times article cited a creator of ballerina cappuccino as having more than 45 million views on TikTok. AI content likes: 3.8 million likes - The same ballerina cappuccino account reportedly received 3.8 million likes. Data center investment claim: hundreds of millions of dollars - Hao described companies promising local governments large investments in data centers to win approval.
Pivotal Quotes: "Apple willfully chose not to comply with this court's injunction. It did so with the express intent to create new anti-competitive barriers... There is no second bite at the Apple. Period." — Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers (quoted by hosts): The hosts read the closing paragraph of the court order describing Apple’s bad-faith noncompliance. "OpenAI is not a normal company and never will be." — Sam Altman (quoted by hosts): Karen Hao and the hosts discuss Altman’s letter to employees amid OpenAI’s restructuring reversal. "I think that if we take seriously the present day harms of what is happening now that will help us not get to future harms." — Karen Hao: Hao explains her accountability-focused approach to AI governance and criticism of narrow existential-risk framing.
Implications: The App Store ruling could reshape mobile commerce by weakening Apple’s grip on developer payments. Hao’s interview underscores growing pressure to regulate AI as infrastructure, labor, and power politics—not just tech hype.
About Hard Fork
“Hard Fork” is a show about the future that’s already here. Each week, journalists Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore and make sense of the latest in the rapidly changing world of tech. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Also, for more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.