Episode Summary
Executive Summary: The episode examines why non-traded REITs and private equity funds often report better returns than public markets during downturns, using Blackstone’s BREIT redemption freeze as the central example. It argues that illiquidity and opaque pricing can make private assets appear less volatile, but that this can mislead investors, distort incentives, and create redemption problems when sentiment turns.
Main Topics: Blackstone BREIT and redemption pressure (Priority: 5/5): The episode uses Blackstone Real Estate Income Trust as the lead case: despite reporting positive performance, it faced heavy withdrawal requests and was forced to limit redemptions, highlighting stress beneath apparently strong marks. Public REITs vs non-traded REIT valuations (Priority: 5/5): The transcript contrasts exchange-traded REITs, which are marked by market prices, with non-traded REITs, which are valued monthly by sponsors with independent appraisers, raising questions about comparability and pricing realism. Private real estate under rising rates (Priority: 4/5): It explains why real estate has weakened broadly in 2022: higher interest rates, lower property values, and softer rents have hurt public REITs and made private marks look suspiciously resilient. Illiquidity premium and 'volatility laundering' (Priority: 5/5): The episode discusses whether private investment illiquidity is a feature or a bug, citing the idea that lower observed volatility may help investors behave better, but may also disguise real risk and justify high fees. Private equity mark-to-model incentives (Priority: 4/5): It broadens the critique to private equity, arguing that many PE funds still report positive year-to-date gains despite public-market declines, and that smoothing marks can benefit managers and investors alike. Secondary markets as reality checks (Priority: 4/5): The transcript notes that growing secondary trading in private fund stakes provides external price discovery, often revealing discounts to reported NAV and undermining the idea that private marks are always reliable.
Key Arguments: Non-traded REITs can appear to outperform public REITs because they are valued infrequently and by sponsor-appointed appraisers rather than by daily market prices. Blackstone’s BREIT may be 'up 9%' on paper, but redemption limits and heavy withdrawal requests suggest investors may be less confident than reported valuations imply. Rising interest rates and falling property values have made real estate less attractive overall, which should pressure both public and private valuations. Private equity managers may smooth returns not necessarily to deceive, but because LPs and their overseers prefer lower volatility and better-looking reported performance. Illiquidity can act like a behavioral restraint, reducing the chance that investors panic-sell at the wrong time, but it also reduces transparency and can mask losses. Secondary markets and redemption requests are gradually revealing market sentiment and showing that private marks can trade at meaningful discounts to NAV. The episode suggests many private funds may be 'volatility laundering' rather than generating truly superior risk-adjusted returns.
Data Points: S&P US REIT Index year-to-date change: down around 23% - Publicly traded REIT benchmark in 2022 S&P 500 year-to-date change: down 15% - Used as a comparison to REIT underperformance Blackstone Real Estate Income Trust year-to-date return: up around 9% - Reported performance for the non-traded REIT Blackstone BREIT assets under management: $125 billion - Size of the property fund facing withdrawals Non-traded REIT fundraising over five years: more than $92 billion - Growth in the private real estate investment market Apartment building values: down 14% over the last year - One of the real-estate segments cited as weakening Industrial building values: down 9% over the same period - Another property segment cited as declining BREIT management fee: over 1.25% annually - Fee charged by Blackstone BREIT BREIT performance fee: 12.5% of annual total return - Subject to a 5% hurdle and high watermark BREIT return since inception: over 13% per year after fees since 2017 - Blackstone’s claimed long-run performance Fees earned by BREIT in 2021: $1.4 billion - Blackstone fee revenue from the fund BREIT share of Blackstone fee revenues: one-fifth - Importance of the fund to Blackstone overall Monthly redemption cap: 2% of assets per month - BREIT redemption policy Quarterly redemption cap: 5% of assets per calendar quarter - Limit that triggered suspension October redemption requests: $1.8 billion - Requests received by BREIT October redemption requests as share of NAV: around 2.7% - Magnitude of investor exit demand November redemption approval rate: 43% - Portion of redemption requests approved by Blackstone Nasdaq 100 year-to-date change: down 28% - Used as a proxy for tech-heavy private fund exposure ARK Innovation Fund year-to-date change: down more than 60% - Example of severe technology-sector losses Average private equity fund year-to-date return: up 3.2% - Claimed performance of private equity funds overall Secondary fund-stake trading volume in first half of year: $57 billion - Growth of the private-fund secondary market Average secondary-market discount to NAV: around 15% - Current pricing of private equity stakes in the secondary market Secondary-market premium in 2019: traded at a premium - Shows how market conditions changed over time
Pivotal Quotes: "Our business is built on performance, not fund flows, and performance is rock-solid." — Blackstone spokesman: Quoted in discussion of BREIT redemptions and apparent strong returns "the stock market is almost always more volatile than the value of the property" — Blackstone (as cited by the episode): Blackstone’s defense of non-traded REIT valuations "volatility laundering" — Cliff Asness: Used to describe how private funds may smooth returns by obscuring true volatility
Implications: Private assets may look safer and stronger than public markets because of pricing opacity, not true resilience. Investors should weigh illiquidity, fees, and redemption risk carefully, especially as secondary markets increasingly expose discounts to reported NAV.
About Patrick Boyle on Finance
This podcast is all about quantitative finance and financial history. Subscribe to hear about financial markets, derivatives, and how investors use quantitative tools from statistics and corporate finance theory. Included are interviews with some of the most interesting thinkers in finance. Occasional longer form financial documentaries, open up fascinating elements of financial markets history. Patrick Boyle is a quantitative hedge fund manager, a university professor, and a former investment banker. To contact Patrick visit http://onfinance.org Find Patrick on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/c/PatrickBoyleOnFinance