Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Colm Tóibín discusses his new short story collection, The News from Dublin, focusing on how fiction captures migration, exile, loss, homecoming, and moral ambiguity. He explains his craft, why short stories and novels differ, and how current politics—especially Trump’s anti-migrant climate—shaped the story "Five Bridges."
Main Topics: Fiction amid political crisis (Priority: 5/5): Tóibín argues that fiction does not directly change politics, but it can still register how ordinary life continues under creeping authoritarianism and public indifference. Short-story craft and structure (Priority: 5/5): He explains that short stories depend on precision, implication, and an exact opening page, while novels require plot, consequence, and reverberation over time. Migration, exile, and homecoming (Priority: 5/5): A central theme is the emotional complexity of living between countries, including the pain of separation, the nostalgia of return, and the strangeness of belonging nowhere fully. "Five Bridges" and the Trump era (Priority: 4/5): Tóibín describes writing a story about an undocumented Irish plumber in California whose decision to self-deport becomes more ominous in the context of Trump’s second election. Moral ambiguity and difficult subjects (Priority: 4/5): He reflects on writing a story about a convicted pedophile in Barcelona, focusing on the challenge of rendering a deeply troubling character in three dimensions without excusing him. Recurring Irish identity and displacement (Priority: 4/5): The conversation returns to Irish passports, diaspora life, and the recurring experience of Irish people moving between countries, often carrying unresolved ties and awkward returns.
Key Arguments: Fiction is not a direct political instrument; writing a "better short story" will not defeat authoritarianism, and pretending otherwise would be self-delusion. Life in the U.S. can feel ordinary even as severe political abuse unfolds, which makes creeping fascism easier to ignore. Short stories depend on subtext and controlled omission; over-explaining destroys their power. Novels and short stories differ structurally: novels need plotted consequences, while short stories can end on a charged, unresolved moment. Migration stories remain compelling because they create irreversible choices, family separations, and the risk of never fully returning home. The emotional truth of homecoming is often stranger than departure; going back can produce irony, alienation, and recognition of change. Writers should be willing to tackle taboo or unpleasant characters if the goal is to dramatize reality rather than avoid discomfort. The exactness of a story can matter even in small details, as shown by the moon-phase correction in "Five Bridges."
Data Points: Number of novels authored: 11 - Emma Brocks introduces Tóibín as the author of 11 novels. Booker Prize shortlistings: 3 - His work has been shortlisted for the Booker Prize three times. New short story collection length: 9 stories - The News from Dublin contains nine stories. Length since last story collection: 15 years - This is his first collection of short stories in 15 years. Countries/regions in the collection: Ireland, Spain, Argentina, America - The stories are set across places Tóibín has lived. Time one story lived in his mind: 16 years - "Five Bridges" had been in his mind for 16 years before completion. Other story gestation span mentioned: 15 years to 30 years - He says stories can sit in his mind for 15 or 30 years before being written. Years in Spain: 3 years - He says his first exile was going to Spain after graduation for three years. Age when emigrating to the U.S. in the story: 18 - The undocumented character in "Five Bridges" came to America at 18. Years undocumented in the U.S. in the story: 30 years - The character in "Five Bridges" has been illegally in California for 30 years. Number of days mentioned for a plumber’s work in Los Angeles anecdote: 2 days - Tóibín recounts a worker saying he could not get supplies the next day because Home Depot was dangerous for undocumented workers. Year of prior interview reference: 2018 - Brocks references their last meeting in 2018 at Columbia University.
Pivotal Quotes: "if I wrote a better short story, Trump would lose the midterms even more?" — Colm Tóibín: He dismisses the idea that fiction directly changes electoral politics. "The only thing they need to watch when they're working is Saturday night." — Colm Tóibín: His humorous advice to students about discipline and the habits that affect writing. "I'm sorry I was caught." — Colm Tóibín: The line in the Barcelona story that crystallizes the character’s coldness and self-justification.
Implications: The conversation shows fiction as a way to make political and moral complexity emotionally legible, not to solve it. For writers, it highlights the value of precision, restraint, and courage in confronting exile, power, and taboo.