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Could the Iran war lead to WWIII?

With the Strait of Hormuz blocked, policy expert Karim Sadjadpour says the war in Iran is becoming increasingly complicated: "I don't think President Trump ... understood what he was getting into." Sadjadpour spoke with Terry Gross about the historical context of the conflict, the fou

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NPR HostKarim Sajapur Guest

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Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Karim Sajapur argues that Iran’s post-assassination leadership is fragile, with power likely resting more with the Revolutionary Guards than Mojsdaba Khamenei. He says the regime remains unified around survival and anti-U.S./Israel ideology, but is strategically weak, internationally isolated, and facing a long war whose nuclear, missile, proxy, and domestic repression issues have no easy solution.

Main Topics: Succession and the new Iranian leadership (Priority: 5/5): Sajapur explains that Mojsdaba Khamenei is formally the successor but likely lacks independent authority, with the Revolutionary Guard and military acting as the real power center. Revolutionary Guard structure and wartime decentralization (Priority: 5/5): He says Iran’s military command has been decentralized into 31 semi-independent units, creating a fragmented retaliatory strategy while preserving loyalty to regime survival and 1979 revolutionary ideology. Iran’s ideological contrast with Gulf states (Priority: 4/5): The discussion contrasts Iran’s resistance-based model with the Gulf monarchies’ modernization, openness to U.S./Israeli partnerships, and economic diversification agendas such as Vision 2030 and Vision 2031. Regional conflict and economic warfare (Priority: 5/5): Sajapur argues Iran uses low-cost drones, missiles, and disruption of the Strait of Hormuz to impose disproportionate costs on wealthier regional rivals and the global economy. World War III and geopolitical escalation (Priority: 4/5): He rejects a high probability of a global war, saying Iran is strategically lonely and unlikely to draw China or Russia into direct combat, though the conflict has made the region more unstable. Nuclear dilemma and negotiating end state (Priority: 5/5): He identifies four unresolved issues for any settlement: enriched uranium, missiles and drones, regional proxies, and the regime’s brutality toward its own people. Prospects for regime change and opposition leadership (Priority: 4/5): Sajapur says protests alone are unlikely to topple the regime because repression is deeply embedded, but exiled figures like Reza Pahlavi may serve as symbolic opposition leaders.

Key Arguments: Mojsdaba Khamenei is officially supreme leader but likely lacks the charisma, experience, and legitimacy of his father; real power may sit with the Revolutionary Guards. The regime’s senior commanders are loyal to the 1979 revolutionary project, especially anti-American and anti-Israeli resistance. Iran’s military command was decentralized into 31 units, which weakens unified retaliation and creates a dispersed, chaotic response pattern. Iran’s regional strategy is asymmetrical: cheap drones and missiles can threaten expensive infrastructure and shipping at relatively low cost. A full-scale World War III is unlikely because Iran lacks strong allies willing to fight on its behalf, while Gulf states have deep ties to both the West and major powers. The current conflict is not just about nuclear issues; it also concerns missiles, drones, proxies, and the regime’s domestic repression. The Iranian opposition lacks organizational leadership inside the country because repression has killed, exiled, or silenced potential leaders. Reza Pahlavi has become an inspirational figure for some Iranians because younger generations increasingly compare the Islamic Republic unfavorably with the Shah era. Iran should reorganize around national interest and modernization rather than anti-U.S./anti-Israel ideology if it wants long-term survival and prosperity. Sajapur believes the U.S. and Iran should be natural partners, but the regime’s ideological posture prevents that alignment.

Data Points: Years of Khamenei rule: 37 years - Sajapur says Ayatollah Khamenei ruled Iran for 37 years and shaped the current senior guard corps. Revolutionary Guard size: Approximately 150,000 men - He cites this figure while explaining the IRGC is not a monolith. Military units after decentralization: 31 different units - He says Iran decentralized command into 31 semi-independent units like octopus legs. Share of Americans opposing the war: Perhaps 3 out of 4 - Sajapur says polling suggests most Americans oppose the war, which Iran hopes will pressure Trump. U.S. warning episodes: 9 occasions - He says Trump warned Iran nine times that killing protesters would trigger U.S. intervention. Population size: 90 million Iranians - Used when discussing the scale of Mojsdaba Khamenei’s first public message. Oil throughput in Strait of Hormuz: 20% of the world’s oil - He cites this to show the strategic importance of the corridor Iran can disrupt. Iranian attacks on Gulf states: Over 2,000 missile and drone attacks - He says Saudi Arabia and the UAE have been hit by more than 2,000 Iranian attacks over recent weeks. Popular support estimate for regime: 15-20% - He estimates the Islamic Republic may have only a small but highly committed support base. Historical GDP comparison: Iran and South Korea had the same GDP in 1978 - He uses this to illustrate Iran’s economic decline relative to peers. War duration of U.S.-Iran diplomatic gap: 47 years - He notes the U.S. has had no embassy in Iran for 47 years.

Pivotal Quotes: "“The inner functionings of the Iranian regime are right now for us a black box.”" — Karim Sajapur: On the uncertainty surrounding Mojsdaba Khamenei’s real authority and the regime’s internal power structure. "“It’s like 31 legs of an octopus.”" — Karim Sajapur: Describing Iran’s decentralized military structure and fragmented retaliation strategy. "“They want to be South Korea, not North Korea.”" — Karim Sajapur: On the aspirations of younger Iranians versus Mojsdaba Khamenei’s more repressive model.

Implications: The episode suggests Iran’s regime is vulnerable but not easily toppled; any endgame will require addressing nuclear, missile, proxy, and human-rights issues. Regional instability may persist, but global war is less likely than prolonged asymmetric conflict.

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Fresh Air from WHYY, the Peabody Award-winning weekday magazine of contemporary arts and issues, is one of public radio's most popular programs. Hosted by Terry Gross and Tonya Mosley, the show features intimate conversations with today's biggest luminaries.

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