Intelligence Squared
Intelligence Squared

Debate: The Battle for the Countryside, with George Monbiot and Rory Stewart

We tend to think of these uplands as ‘wild’ and ‘natural’. But in fact, as the rewilders point out, they are entirely man-made, the result of clearances by man to make way for millions of sheep whose grazing over the last 200 years has rendered the land bare. Sheep farming, once a major source of Br

Featured Speakers

Mark Cocker GuestGeorge Monbiot Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: This Intelligence Squared debate examined whether Britain should rewild its uplands. Proponents George Monbiot and Mark Cocker argued that subsidies, overgrazing, and industrial farming have denatured landscapes, driven biodiversity loss, and failed rural communities; rewilding could restore ecosystems and create new nature-based livelihoods. Opponents Minette Batters and Rory Stewart defended upland farming’s cultural, economic, and environmental value, arguing it supports tourism, access, food production, and managed landscapes, while warning that blanket rewilding misreads upland realities.

Main Topics: Rewilding as ecological restoration (Priority: 5/5): Monbiot and Cocker argued that uplands should recover forests, wildlife, and functioning ecosystems after centuries of degradation from grazing and subsidy-driven land use. Upland farming, livelihoods, and cultural landscape (Priority: 5/5): Batters and Stewart emphasized that uplands are lived-in working landscapes shaped by farmers, with heritage, jobs, food production, and community identity at stake. Public subsidy and fairness (Priority: 5/5): A major dispute centered on whether public money should continue supporting land ownership and grazing, or be redirected toward biodiversity and restoration outcomes. Biodiversity loss and species decline (Priority: 4/5): The debate repeatedly referenced declines in birds, butterflies, ponds, and other wildlife as evidence that current land management is failing nature. Economics of tourism versus farming (Priority: 4/5): Both sides used economic arguments: rewilding supporters cited nature tourism and ecosystem services, while opponents argued current uplands already generate major visitor value. Predation, management, and ecological complexity (Priority: 3/5): Audience questions and rebuttals addressed beavers, foxes, badgers, and bird predation, highlighting that restoration requires active management, not just abandonment.

Key Arguments: George Monbiot argued Britain’s uplands are uniquely stripped of trees and wildlife compared with Europe, mainly because subsidies reward land ownership and sheep grazing rather than ecological recovery. Monbiot claimed upland sheep occupy about 4 million hectares yet produce only 1% of Britain’s food, making them an inefficient use of land with severe ecological damage. Mark Cocker argued the countryside has been radically simplified by 80 years of subsidy-driven intensification, causing huge losses in birds, meadows, ponds, and other wildlife. Cocker said taxpayers already fund landowners heavily, so the public has a legitimate stake in how land is managed and a right to demand ecological change. Minette Batters argued farmers are experts in their own fields and that uplands are cultural, managed landscapes providing food, access, water, and tourism for millions. Batters said public support is justified because the market does not pay for services like flood management, water quality, and open access. Rory Stewart argued the motion overstates the case: many losses cited by the pro side are lowland or national issues, not specifically upland ones, and upland farming has preserved major areas of habitat and landscape value. Stewart contended that rewilding benefits would be greater in lowlands and near cities, especially for biodiversity, health, and pollution reduction, rather than in remote uplands. Several speakers agreed that some environmental change is necessary, but disagreed sharply on where rewilding should occur and whether uplands are the best target. Audience questions pushed the discussion toward practical ecology, including beavers’ flood and sediment benefits, predation pressures, and the mechanics of rewilding at both landscape and micro scales.

Data Points: European average tree cover: 37% - Monbiot contrasted Europe’s average woodland cover with Britain’s much lower level. UK tree cover: 13% - Monbiot used this to argue Britain’s uplands are exceptionally deforested. Upland land area occupied by sheep: roughly 4 million hectares - Monbiot said upland sheep grazing covers an area comparable to Britain’s arable and horticultural land. Food produced by upland sheep land: 1% of Britain’s food - Monbiot used this to argue the land use is ecologically costly and economically inefficient. Public support for uplands: £230 million - Batters said this is the annual public funding going into the uplands. Cost per upland visit: less than £3.30 per person per visit - Batters divided £230 million by 70 million annual visits to argue public spending is good value. Annual uplands visitors: 70 million - Batters used this figure to show uplands’ importance for recreation and tourism. Open access in uplands: 86% - Batters said this high access rate explains why people visit the uplands. UK water sourced from uplands: 70% - Batters cited uplands as vital for water supply. Dragonfly species in uplands: 28 out of 38 - Batters used this to show uplands’ biodiversity value. Largest landowner subsidy example: £2,075,938.51 - Cocker cited the Duke of Buccleuch’s CAP payments to illustrate regressivity. Average annual farm subsidies: £3 billion - Cocker said this is the scale of annual public support to farmers. Lost small farmers: 130,000 in a single generation - Cocker cited Richard Body on the social impact of intensification. Flower-rich meadows lost in England: 99% of 4 million acres - Cocker used this as evidence of ecological collapse. Bird loss over 40 years: 44 million breeding birds - Cocker cited this as a broad measure of wildlife decline. Existing woodland cover in 1900: 3% - Stewart argued Britain’s woodland cover has risen since 1900, challenging Monbiot’s subsidy explanation. Current woodland cover: 13% - Stewart noted this increase to argue Britain has seen real tree recovery over time. British land value generated by uplands: £2.4 billion a year - Stewart said current uplands support a large outdoor economy and tourism sector. Upland visitor count used by Stewart: 14 million visitors a year - He used this in a per-visitor subsidy comparison. Per-visitor subsidy comparison: £3.20 per visitor - Stewart compared uplands funding favorably with museum support. V&A subsidy per visitor: £14.50 per visitor - Stewart contrasted this with upland support to defend public spending. BEFORE debate vote: 61% for, 13% against, 26% undecided - Jonathan Dimbleby announced the starting audience vote. AFTER debate vote: 52% for, 39% against, 9% undecided - Final audience vote showed a swing against the motion’s proponents. Vote swing: 18% against the proponents - Dimbleby summarized the net shift after the debate.

Pivotal Quotes: "the battle for the countryside, Britain should rewild its uplands" — Jonathan Dimbleby: He introduced the formal motion under debate. "The cheapest deal we have is to increase our biodiversity" — Mark Cocker: Cocker argued that rewilding offers high-value ecological and social returns. "If you take a look at a satellite map of Britain and Europe, you'll see something very peculiar" — George Monbiot: Monbiot opened by contrasting Britain’s barren uplands with Europe’s more forested landscapes.

Implications: The debate shows rewilding is now a mainstream policy choice, but its success depends on balancing ecology, food, subsidies, and rural identity. Future policy will likely favor targeted, mixed restoration rather than blanket upland rewilding.

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