DOGE Is Gutting the US Digital Service w/ Kate Green and Milo

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Paris Marks interviews former U.S. Digital Service engineers Kate Green and Milo about the transition from USDS to Elon Musk’s DOGE takeover. They explain how public-sector tech work differs from Silicon Valley, why good government software requires care, policy awareness, privacy safeguards, and user-centered design, and how DOGE’s layoffs and combative culture threaten essential services.

Main Topics: USDS mission and public-sector engineering (Priority: 5/5): Kate and Milo describe USDS as a team that solves government service problems for the public, often through forms, data systems, and cross-agency workflows, with an emphasis on helping agencies build long-term capacity. Difference between government tech and private-sector tech (Priority: 5/5): The guests contrast profit-driven product development with public-service engineering, arguing that government work must prioritize accessibility, equity, policy constraints, and serving diverse users over speed or revenue. Examples of effective digital service projects (Priority: 5/5): They cite Direct File, VA digital improvements, disaster recovery data sharing, refugee application status tools, CDC reporting apps, and Simple Report as examples of thoughtful government technology that improved access and outcomes. DOGE takeover and workplace disruption (Priority: 5/5): The discussion turns to the hostile transition into the U.S. Doge Service, including interviews, layoffs, resignations, and a culture of disrespect toward civil servants and their work. Privacy, security, and data stewardship (Priority: 4/5): The guests stress that government collects sensitive, compulsory data and must protect it carefully through privacy impact assessments, CISOs, and justification processes—something they believe DOGE is ignoring. We the Builders as public education and documentation (Priority: 4/5): Kate and Milo explain their initiative as an effort to demystify federal tech work, humanize workers, and document what is happening inside government for the public and media.

Key Arguments: Government tech should be evaluated by how well it helps the most people who need it most, not by profit or novelty. Effective public-sector engineering often requires understanding policy, operations, and human behavior; technology alone is not always the solution. USDS’s role evolved from emergency firefighting into helping agencies build sustainable digital capacity and internal expertise. DOGE’s approach appears to assume existing civil servants are unnecessary, ignoring the expertise and workload of the teams already doing the work. Cutting essential government tech teams without understanding systems can delay or break benefits delivery, creating real-world harm including life-or-death consequences. Privacy and security are non-negotiable in government because citizens are compelled to share data in exchange for services and legal compliance. Public-sector products like Direct File and Simple Report show that careful, user-centered design can significantly improve service delivery and adoption. We the Builders exists to document, explain, and humanize federal workers and the consequences of DOGE-era changes for the public.

Data Points: USDS staff at inauguration: 150 - Milo says USDS had about 150 people when the inauguration happened. Layoffs on February 14: 50 - Milo says 50 people were let go on February 14. Known resignations: 30+ - Milo says at least 30 people resigned, and that number only reflects people he personally knows. Agency count involved in disaster recovery: 14 agencies - Kate describes disaster recovery assistance as involving data sharing across 14 agencies. Refugee application wait time: 2 to 3 years - Kate says refugee application status can take two to three years. Simple Report learning time: 5 minutes - Milo says the CDC’s Simple Report tool took about five minutes to learn. School reporting load: 300 students + 50 to 75 staff - Milo uses a school example to show how many test results might need daily reporting. Direct File user rating: Off the charts NPS - Kate says Direct File’s NPS scores are extremely strong compared with private-sector alternatives. Security timeline reference: 1996 - Milo says Congress has not passed a budget since 1996, in the context of limiting planning and modernization. Age in example: 91 - Kate mentions her grandmother is 91 when discussing Social Security risks.

Pivotal Quotes: "the most good for the most people who need it the most" — Kate Green: She describes a core USDS value emphasizing public benefit over technical flashiness. "These people are working their butts off and the disrespect that's implicit in how they treated those people, my colleagues, my fellow Americans, just pisses me off." — Kate Green: She reacts angrily to DOGE’s treatment of federal tech workers and the assumption their work is unnecessary. "We believe in service and we believe in servicing the people in the best way possible." — Milo: He summarizes the ethos behind USDS and its public-interest orientation.

Implications: The episode argues that digital government succeeds when it is patient, collaborative, and accountable. If DOGE continues applying blunt-cut, private-sector logic to public services, citizens could face worse access, weaker privacy, and real harm.