Ep. 462 - Mulling Over Mueller

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode centers on three major themes: the New York Times report that Trump considered firing Robert Mueller, a sharp critique of FBI conduct in the Hillary Clinton investigation based on newly released texts, and Trump’s new immigration framework, which Ben Shapiro argues is more public posturing than sincere negotiation. The show also touches on the economy, media hypocrisy, and several listener mailbag topics on law, ethics, Israel, and cloning.

Main Topics: Trump and Robert Mueller obstruction concerns (Priority: 5/5): Shapiro argues that Trump’s alleged consideration of firing Mueller is politically damaging but probably not a clean criminal obstruction case because Mueller was not actually fired and the investigation continued. FBI bias and the Strzok-Page texts (Priority: 5/5): He treats the released texts between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page as strong evidence of political bias inside the FBI during the Hillary Clinton investigation, while stopping short of claiming a full deep-state coup. Trump’s immigration framework (Priority: 5/5): The White House’s proposal to legalize more DACA recipients and expand the path to citizenship in exchange for wall funding is presented as both a bargaining chip and a political PR move that angers both conservatives and liberals. Media and political hypocrisy (Priority: 4/5): Shapiro criticizes CNN, Fox personalities, and Democratic figures for exaggerated or selective narratives, including treatment of the Mueller report, the Nunes memo, and allegations about Nikki Haley. Economic growth and tax-cut effects (Priority: 3/5): He notes wage increases and bonuses at major companies as evidence that tax cuts and a stronger economy are producing real benefits, contrary to Democratic predictions. Mailbag: law, ethics, and social issues (Priority: 3/5): Shapiro answers listener questions on car insurance mandates, the is-ought problem, Israeli military service for Haredim, ethical theories, and cloning, using them to restate his views on objective morality and constitutional limits.

Key Arguments: Trump’s reported intent to fire Mueller matters politically, but legally it is weak because he had the authority to fire executive-branch officials and did not ultimately do so. Obstruction of justice would require more than anger or threats; it would require a concrete act that materially impeded an investigation or a substantial step toward criminal intent. The Strzok-Page texts are evidence that senior FBI personnel were politically compromised in the Hillary Clinton matter, especially regarding how softly to treat her because she might become president. Claims of a sweeping FBI “deep state coup” are premature; the evidence shows bias and poor judgment more than a fully proven conspiracy. Trump’s immigration plan is best understood as political theater: it signals generosity toward immigrants while also pressuring Democrats to accept border-security concessions. The proposal is also a risky opening bargaining position because it expands legalization and allows a large number of additional legal immigrants through chain migration. Media outlets and commentators often jump to conclusions too quickly, especially when the story fits an existing partisan narrative. Economic data like wage hikes and bonuses undermine Democratic claims that the tax law would be disastrous. Objective morality cannot be derived from facts alone; Shapiro argues that the is-ought gap is bridged either by revelation or by teleological reasoning grounded in purpose. Haredim should not be broadly exempt from Israeli military service, because universal service should apply fairly unless there is a narrow, principled exception.

Data Points: Trump attempted firing of Mueller: June 2017 - Referenced as the timing of the New York Times report on the alleged order to fire Mueller. Mueller investigation date: Special counsel appointed in June 2017 - Explains the sequence after Comey’s firing and Rosenstein’s recusal. Illegal immigrants eligible for amnesty under proposal: 1.8 million - Trump’s new framework extends beyond the roughly 700,000 DACA recipients. DACA recipients originally covered: about 700,000 - Baseline group compared to the expanded Trump framework. Border wall fund request: $25 billion - What Republicans want in return for legalization and immigration changes. Chain migration wait list: 17 years - Used to argue that grandfathering existing applicants could allow millions more immigrants. Projected additional immigrants via chain migration: about 4 million - Critique from immigration hawks that the delay would allow a large inflow. FedEx wage increases and bonuses: $3.2 billion - Cited as evidence of the economy’s strength. Massachusetts/analysis of FBI texts: 7 pages of text messages - Released by Senator Chuck Grassley between Peter Strzok and Lisa Page. Cuckolding study sample: 580 men - Study discussed by CNN was based on gay men, not heterosexual couples. Political recusal issue: Andy McCabe recused himself a week before the election - Shapiro argues he should have recused much earlier due to his wife’s ties to Terry McAuliffe.

Pivotal Quotes: "You will find me innocent or I will fire you. Those are the two choices." — Ben Shapiro: Used to define what actual presidential obstruction of justice would look like. "One more thing: she might be our next president. The last thing you need us going in there loaded for bear." — Lisa Page: Quoted from the released Strzok-Page texts about softening the FBI’s approach to Hillary Clinton. "It seems to be a classic weapon of mass distraction." — Shep Smith: His criticism of the Devin Nunes memo and the broader media cycle around it.

Implications: The episode argues that many Trump scandals are more political than criminal, while FBI bias and immigration theatrics will shape upcoming battles. Expect continued partisan polarization, more scrutiny of intelligence agencies, and Trump using immigration as a campaign message.