Radiolab
Radiolab

Forests on Forests

For much of history, tree canopies were pretty much completely ignored by science. It was as if researchers said collectively, "It's just going to be empty up there, and we've got our hands full studying the trees down here! So why bother?!" But then, around the mid-1980s, a few

Featured Speakers

WNYC Studios Host

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode explores the hidden vertical ecology of forests: canopy soils, roots, and even whole communities of life thriving high above the ground. Building on earlier work about underground fungal networks, it shows that treetops contain rich, nutrient-dense ecosystems where trees can root, share resources, and host surprising species, revealing forests as layered, interconnected worlds rather than simple ground-bound systems.

Main Topics: The forest canopy as a hidden ecosystem (Priority: 5/5): The story reframes the canopy from empty space to a densely populated habitat with mosses, lichens, ferns, soil, animals, and even aquatic-like organisms. Nalini Nadkarni’s path to canopy research (Priority: 5/5): Ecologist Nalini Nadkarni’s childhood tree-climbing and later scientific intuition led her to pioneer canopy studies despite skepticism from the field. Canopy soil formation and nutrient richness (Priority: 5/5): Moss and plant debris accumulate on branches over time, creating deep canopy soils that can hold far more available nutrients than forest-floor soils during key seasons. Trees rooting upward into the canopy (Priority: 5/5): The episode’s major revelation is that mature trees send roots into canopy soils, effectively foraging above ground when below-ground nutrients are scarce. Life atop life: vertical layering and regeneration (Priority: 4/5): Scientists find small trees, seedlings, salamanders, and other species living in canopy soils, suggesting a fractal, multi-layered forest structure with repeated habitats. Scientific exploration methods and changing assumptions (Priority: 4/5): Access tools such as ropes, cranes, platforms, and even dirigibles enabled scientists to discover that canopies may hold a vast share of terrestrial biodiversity. Promotion of the later Spam podcast series (Priority: 2/5): The episode closes with an ad-like preview of another investigative series about Spam, its museum culture, and a historical factory strike that shaped a town.

Key Arguments: Forest canopies are not empty; they are complex ecosystems that were overlooked because scientists lacked ways to study them. Canopy soils are not merely copies of forest-floor soil but are especially valuable reservoirs of nutrients like phosphorus and nitrogen during seasons when the ground is depleted. Large canopy trees actively exploit these elevated nutrient stores by growing roots upward into branch-borne soil. The canopy hosts a surprising amount of biodiversity, including organisms that would normally be associated with the ground or even aquatic environments. Studying forests only from the ground gives an incomplete picture; the vertical dimension is essential to understanding forest ecology. New tools and access methods transformed canopy research from a speculative idea into a field producing major ecological discoveries.

Data Points: Canopy life share: about 50% of all terrestrial life on the planet - Stated in the discussion of how much life scientists believe resides in forest canopies Canopy soil depth: up to 3 feet deep - Reported for old-growth redwood canopy soil pockets Canopy tree height: about 100 feet above the ground - Describing where Nalini Nadkarni sampled moss and soil in the canopy Canopy soil nutrients: more nitrogen and phosphorus than forest-floor soils during spring scarcity - Karina Mafune’s comparison of canopy soils to forest-floor samples Age of host tree researcher: 67 years old - Nalini Nadkarni jokingly refers to herself as the dowager queen or grandmother of forest canopies Episode reference year: 2016 - The earlier Radiolab episode 'Tree to Shining Tree' is referenced as having aired in 2016 Podcast series length: three-part series - Mentioned in the promotional segment about the Experiment’s Spam series

Pivotal Quotes: "What I found was that the trees that were the biggest and the oldest were the most highly connected." — Suzanne Simard: Used to describe the underground network of tree roots and fungi from the earlier episode "I was like, okay, there's like a forest in a forest on a forest. I need to research this." — Karina Mafune: Her reaction to discovering canopy soils and deciding to study them "It was a real revelation." — Narration/host: After discovering that a tree’s roots extend upward into canopy soil

Implications: Forests should be understood as vertically layered systems with hidden habitats and nutrient strategies. This expands conservation priorities beyond the forest floor and highlights why protecting old-growth forests preserves much more than visible trees.

🔓 Sign Up for Unlimited Episode Search

About Radiolab

Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of someone halfway across the world. The show is known for innovative sound design, smashing information into music. It is hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser.

View all episodes from Radiolab