Against the Rules
Against the Rules

How the Financial Crisis Broke Politics

To wrap up our series on The Big Short, Michael Lewis speaks with two people who represent two very different responses to the financial crisis of 2008: US Senator Elizabeth Warren, an expert in bankruptcy law who became an advisor to the Obama White House before running for higher office in Massach

Featured Speakers

Michael Lewis HostSteve Bannon GuestElizabeth Warren Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: This podcast episode explores how the 2008 financial crisis reshaped American politics, focusing on two figures who rose from it: Senator Elizabeth Warren, who created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and Steve Bannon, whose anger over the bailouts fueled his populist nationalism. The discussion traces the crisis's role in generating widespread anger, leading to both progressive and right-wing political movements, and argues that the event fundamentally altered the political landscape, culminating in Donald Trump's presidency.

Main Topics: The Financial Crisis as a Political Catalyst (Priority: 5/5): The 2008 crisis ignited widespread anger over perceived unfairness, with elites bailed out while ordinary people lost homes. This anger fueled both progressive (Elizabeth Warren) and populist (Steve Bannon) political movements. Elizabeth Warren's Path to Politics (Priority: 4/5): Warren's academic work on bankruptcy and middle-class financial struggles led to her role overseeing the TARP bailout, then to creating the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and ultimately to a Senate run after being blocked from leading the agency. Steve Bannon's Radicalization (Priority: 4/5): Bannon, a former Goldman Sachs banker, was radicalized by the bailouts, seeing them as a betrayal of ordinary people like his father. This drove his economic nationalism and support for Trump. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) (Priority: 3/5): Warren argued for a new agency to police the border between ordinary Americans and finance, consolidating scattered consumer protection laws. The CFPB was created but later targeted by the Trump administration. The Rise of Trump and Populism (Priority: 5/5): Both Warren and Bannon agree the financial crisis was the direct cause of Trump's political rise, with Bannon calling it 'the fuse' that led to Trump's 2016 victory. The anger over bailouts and inequality fueled his appeal. The Failure of Accountability (Priority: 4/5): A key grievance was that no Wall Street executives were prosecuted or lost their jobs after the crisis, while millions lost homes. This eroded trust in institutions and government. Bannon's Vision for Radical Change (Priority: 3/5): Bannon advocates for breaking up the Federal Reserve, attacking the 'deep state,' and implementing supply-side tax cuts and tariffs. He warns that without fundamental change, the country faces more radical outcomes.

Key Arguments: The financial crisis created a sense of unfairness that the rules are rigged for elites, which persists in American politics. Elizabeth Warren argues that a dedicated consumer agency was needed because existing laws were scattered and unenforced. Steve Bannon argues the bailouts socialized risk and protected elites, betraying ordinary people who played by the rules. Both Warren and Bannon agree the crisis directly enabled Donald Trump's political rise by fueling populist anger. Bannon claims the crisis exposed the corruption of the neoliberal model and that Trump's election was a direct consequence. Warren notes that government's failure to hold banks accountable turned anger against government itself, enabling Trump's attacks on institutions. Bannon believes the system must change to give the 'little guy' a stake, or the country will face more radical upheaval.

Data Points: TARP bailout size: $700 billion - The Troubled Asset Relief Program that Warren's panel oversaw. Homes lost: 10 million - Number of Americans who lost their homes during the crisis, according to Warren. Average American income: $52,000 - Bannon cites this as the average income, contrasting with low cash savings. Average American cash savings: under $1,000 - Bannon uses this to illustrate financial precarity of ordinary Americans. Warren's initial poll deficit: 45 points behind - Her deficit when she first ran for Senate in Massachusetts. Bannon's prison sentence: 4 months - Time served at Danbury federal prison for contempt of Congress.

Pivotal Quotes: "The people who are the supposed best and brightest, and certainly the most privileged, get to take a pass on the harsh side of capitalism. Everybody else, when they fail, they fail. They go out of business, they have to declare bankruptcy, they do things that are illegal, they go to jail. But people who are sitting at the top of the society, being paid more than people at the top of the society have ever been paid, screw up the entire society... and nobody goes to jail, and they get their bonuses still, and their banks are saved, even though they should have failed." — Michael Lewis: Describing the core grievance that fueled post-crisis anger. "I think it was 17 September of 2008. That fuse was lit, that went off, it blew up in November 8th of 2016." — Steve Bannon: Bannon directly linking the financial crisis to Trump's election. "People saw 2008 as the banks got bailed out, that not only did nobody go to jail for having wrecked our economy, hell, those guys didn't even lose their jobs. They got bonuses. Meanwhile, 10 million Americans lost their homes." — Elizabeth Warren: Warren summarizing the perceived injustice that fueled anger.

Implications: The podcast reveals that the 2008 crisis is the foundational event for today's populist politics, both left and right. It explains the deep distrust of institutions and the appeal of figures like Trump and Warren. For listeners, it underscores that the political battles of the present are direct aftershocks of that financial earthquake.

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About Against the Rules

Michael Lewis’s best-selling book The Big Short is now 15 years old. The Oscar-winning movie based on it came out a decade ago. To mark the occasion, Lewis has narrated a new audiobook of The Big Short. Here on his podcast, he and co-host Lidia Jean Kott are thinking about the legacy of the book, the movie, and the financial crisis of 2008. Michael catches up with the director of the movie, Adam McKay, as well as some of the real-life characters depicted by the likes of Ryan Gosling, Steve Carell and Jeremy Strong. He also calls up journalists, economists, and historians to make sense of the 2008 financial crisis and to understand how it still affects the world today.

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