How to get better at money, with Carrie Joy Grimes

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: CJ Grimes, founder of WorkMoney, explains how a nonprofit serving 9 million Americans grew from a COVID-era information site into a broader financial-support movement. The conversation centers on the psychology of money, the power of community bargaining, and practical tools like discounts and bill negotiation to help working and middle-class people save, earn, and spend smarter.

Main Topics: WorkMoney’s origin and mission (Priority: 5/5): Grimes describes WorkMoney as the resource she wished existed for people trying to make sense of money. It began during COVID as a trusted website answering urgent financial questions and evolved into a nonprofit helping members save, earn more, and navigate the economy. Money as math plus feelings (Priority: 5/5): A core theme is that personal finance is not just numerical; emotions like fear, shame, and avoidance often block action. Grimes argues that changing one’s money story is essential to changing financial behavior. Union organizing as foundational training (Priority: 4/5): Her 20 years as a union organizer taught her to listen first, understand working people’s lived realities, and recognize how collective action can shift conditions. That experience directly shaped WorkMoney’s approach. Scaling from crisis response to civic institution (Priority: 5/5): What started as pandemic relief became a durable service because economic pressure never really eased for most Americans. Grimes emphasizes building a permanent institution that combines information, savings tools, and collective leverage. Collective bargaining and market power (Priority: 4/5): WorkMoney seeks to help members bargain for cheaper goods and services and to use constituent power to influence policy. The organization sees money problems as both individual and systemic. Practical tools: discounts, partnerships, and bill negotiation (Priority: 5/5): Grimes highlights partnerships like Upside and the new Money Finder service to lower bills. These tools are meant to put money directly back in members’ pockets while building trust and scale. Personal finance advice and anti-shame philosophy (Priority: 5/5): Grimes rejects shame-based financial advice and urges listeners to prioritize emergency savings, pay down credit card debt, and max out tax-advantaged retirement accounts before chasing riskier investments.

Key Arguments: Most people’s biggest money problem is not knowledge alone but emotional avoidance, shame, and fear around looking at the numbers. A trusted, nonprofit-backed financial guide can help ordinary Americans make better decisions and navigate a confusing economy. Collective power can lower costs more effectively than isolated individual effort, especially when applied to large expenses and consumer markets. WorkMoney scaled because economic stress persisted after COVID; the underlying problem was not temporary. The organization’s model is intentionally broad: individual financial help plus collective advocacy and market leverage. Bill negotiation and discount partnerships are practical ways to translate scale into immediate household savings. Financial advice should empower people, not shame them; shame rarely produces lasting behavior change. The basics still matter most: emergency fund, credit card payoff, then retirement savings before speculative investing.

Data Points: WorkMoney members: 9 million and growing - Size of the nonprofit community served by WorkMoney Union organizing experience: Just about 20 years - Grimes’s background before founding WorkMoney WorkMoney launch period: Started in 2020 during COVID - The nonprofit began as a website responding to urgent pandemic-era financial questions Book publication context: The Joy of Money - Grimes’s forthcoming book discussed in the interview Bill negotiation average savings: $400 a pop - Average amount saved so far through Money Finder Negotiation service fee: Maximum of $75 - Fee for Money Finder, paid only if savings are delivered Gas discount example: 25 cents a gallon - Example savings through Upside using the WorkMoney code Emergency fund goal: $1,000 - Grimes’s recommended first savings milestone Credit card guidance: Pay off credit card debt before investing - Advice on prioritizing high-interest debt over other investments Retirement savings guidance: 3 to 6 months of expenses - Recommended savings buffer after the initial emergency fund and debt payoff

Pivotal Quotes: "Money is math and feelings." — CJ Grimes: Grimes summarizes why people struggle with personal finance beyond just numbers "The thing that holds the most people back is the feelings part." — CJ Grimes: Explaining how fear, shame, and avoidance interfere with financial decision-making "Politics is like an outcome." — CJ Grimes: Describing her view that WorkMoney should focus on practical power rather than partisan identity

Implications: The episode frames personal finance as both emotional and structural, suggesting that practical tools, trusted information, and collective bargaining can improve everyday Americans’ financial lives more effectively than shame or individual-only advice.