The Huberman Lab
The Huberman Lab

How Your Thoughts Are Built & How You Can Shape Them | Dr. Jennifer Groh

My guest is Dr. Jennifer Groh, PhD, professor of psychology and neuroscience at Duke University. She explains how our brain encodes sights and sounds and integrates them so we can navigate and understand the world around us. She explains what thoughts really are and how what you focus on determines

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Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode explores how the brain integrates senses to localize sound, shape attention, and construct thought. Dr. Jennifer Groh explains that hearing is dynamically tied to eye position, space, and body state, with top-down signals reaching the ear itself. The conversation expands into music, emotion, attention, and how sensory environments and habits like phone use affect focus and flow.

Main Topics: Multisensory integration and sound localization: The discussion centers on how vision and hearing are merged in the brain to determine where sounds come from, including timing, intensity, and spectral cues. Eye movements reshape auditory processing: Groh describes evidence that saccades and eye position alter auditory signals, even at the level of the ear and auditory pathway, suggesting integration begins earlier than commonly assumed. The ear as an active, brain-influenced organ: The episode details middle-ear muscles, cochlear outer hair cells, and otoacoustic emissions, arguing that the ear is not passive but under top-down control. Thought as sensory simulation: Groh proposes that thinking may involve running mini-simulations in sensory cortex—visual, auditory, and even smell—helping explain why cognition is tied to sensory-motor systems. Attention, flow, and sensory environment: The conversation links focus to narrowing sensory input, context design, and state-dependent cognition, including strategies for entering flow and avoiding distraction. Music, rhythm, and group coordination: They discuss music as universal, possibly evolved for cooperation, vigor displays, courtship, and coordinated group action; rhythm is emphasized as foundational. Practical impacts of phones, headphones, and noise: The dialogue covers hearing health, hearing loss, headphone safety, Bluetooth concerns, and how modern devices fragment attention while altering auditory experience.

Key Arguments: Sound localization depends on timing differences, intensity differences, and ear-shape filtering; the brain uses all three, not just left-right timing. Eye movements affect auditory coding; the brain appears to incorporate visual context into hearing much earlier and more pervasively than previously assumed. The ear is an active participant in perception: muscles and cochlear mechanisms receive descending brain signals and can generate measurable otoacoustic emissions. Thought may be built from sensory simulations in cortex, which explains why speech can interfere with difficult visual-motor tasks and why thoughts often feel partial or fragmented. Attention is highly state- and context-dependent; creating the right physical and sensory environment can make deep focus and flow much easier. Music may have evolved to coordinate groups, signal vigor, support courtship, and make cooperative action more effective than individuals alone. Modern phones and endless-scroll interfaces exploit seamless on-ramps to attention, making self-regulation much harder than earlier media forms.

Data Points: Maximum ear-to-ear timing delay for sound localization: about 0.5 milliseconds - Used to illustrate how tiny auditory timing differences are and how demanding the brain's computation must be. Baby head width compared with adult head width: about half as wide - Explains why sound-localization cues must be continuously learned and updated during development. Prevalence of red-green colorblindness: 6% of the population - Discussed as an example of imperfect sensory signaling and compensatory cue design. Lifetime prevalence of hearing loss: 80% of us - Mentioned to emphasize how widespread hearing loss is and why hearing protection matters. Cognitive benefit window after chicken gaze fixation: 40 minutes to 1 hour - Referenced in the context of attention-training practices in classrooms. Noise-canceling/earbud exposure warning threshold: If others can hear your audio, it's too loud - Cited as a practical rule of thumb for avoiding hearing damage. Grand Central whisper distance: about 25 feet - Used as a real-world example of reflective acoustics enabling surprising sound transmission. Bass drum / gong example: low-frequency sounds travel farther - Illustrated as a practical communication strategy for long-distance signaling.

Pivotal Quotes: "what goes on in our brains when we think might be that we're running simulations related to the thought using that sensory, sensory-motor infrastructure of the brain" — Dr. Jennifer Groh: Explaining a theory of thought as sensory simulation. "your ears are making sounds" — Dr. Jennifer Groh: Describing otoacoustic emissions and the active role of the ear in hearing. "the best way for me to achieve a state of relaxation" — Dr. Jennifer Groh: Discussing how attention, stress, and environment shape calm and focus, especially when connected but not overloaded.

Implications: Listeners can better understand attention, learning, and focus by treating cognition as sensorimotor and state-dependent. For product, education, and media design, reducing sensory clutter and endless attention traps may improve performance and well-being.

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About The Huberman Lab

The Huberman Lab podcast is hosted by Andrew Huberman, Ph.D., a neuroscientist and tenured professor in the department of neurobiology, and by courtesy, psychiatry and behavioral sciences at Stanford School of Medicine. The podcast discusses neuroscience and science-based tools, including how our brain and its connections with the organs of our body control our perceptions, our behaviors, and our health, as well as existing and emerging tools for measuring and changing how our nervous system works. Huberman has made numerous significant contributions to the fields of brain development, brain function, and neural plasticity, which is the ability of our nervous system to rewire and learn new behaviors, skills, and cognitive functioning. He is a McKnight Foundation and Pew Foundation Fellow and was awarded the Cogan Award, given to the scientist making the most significant discoveries in the study of vision, in 2017. Work from the Huberman Laboratory at Stanford School of Medicine has been published in top journals, including Nature, Science, and Cell, and has been featured in TIME, BBC, Scientific American, Discover, and other top media outlets. In 2021, Dr. Huberman launched the Huberman Lab podcast. The podcast is frequently ranked in the top 10 of all podcasts globally and is often ranked #1 in the categories of Science, Education, and Health & Fitness.

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