Episode Summary
Executive Summary: The episode revisits Radiolab’s prior “Numbers” segment by remaking Terry Riley’s minimalist 1964 piece “In C” through the lens of counting, parenting, and remix culture. Jad and Robert compare multiple reworks—by Michael Lowenstern, Zoe Keating, and Jad’s own version—showing how a structured, iconic composition can be transformed by personal life, improvisation, and playful experimentation.
Main Topics: Revisiting the 'Numbers' tape of Mina counting: The hosts return to raw audio of toddler Mina learning to count, which becomes the emotional and conceptual seed for the episode’s later musical remix experiment. Terry Riley’s 'In C' as a foundational minimalist work: They explain the historical significance of 'In C,' framing it as a joyful corrective to darker avant-garde classical music and a precursor to minimalism, techno, and film scoring. Commissioned remix project around 'In C': A new recording project by the Grand Valley State New Music Ensemble invited multiple artists to remix the piece, turning a canonical composition into a collaborative reinterpretation. Michael Lowenstern’s structurally randomized remix: Lowenstern describes building a remix around randomness—especially in the drums—using computer-based shuffling to create variability while preserving an underlying structure. Zoe Keating’s 'Zinc' and the emotional key of C: Keating reflects on the accessibility and childlike optimism of C major, aiming for a flowing, waterfall-like sound that contrasts with the structure of the original piece. Jad Abumrad’s fatherhood-inspired remix 'Counting in C': Jad explains that paternity leave and counting to his own baby fused with the 'In C' ostinato, producing a playful, intimate remix that includes Mina’s counting and his son Emil.
Key Arguments: 'In C' matters historically because it helped catalyze minimalism and influenced later musical forms, despite being a single piece many listeners have never heard. Remixing a canonical work can reveal how structure and randomness coexist; different artists emphasize different facets of the same composition. Parenting and everyday speech rhythms can become musical material, turning a baby’s counting into a composition concept. Jad’s remix is not just novelty; it shows how personal life can shape creative interpretation in a meaningful, audible way. The project demonstrates that classical music can be made accessible and alive through collaborative reinterpretation rather than reverent preservation.
Data Points: Year of 'In C' composition: 1964 - Terry Riley’s original minimalist piece is introduced as the source material for the remix project. Number of remix participants: 16 or 18 people - Jad says the ensemble asked “18 people, or maybe it’s 16” to remix the piece, indicating a large collaborative project. Child age: About 2 years old - Mina, the child whose counting tape is featured, is described as being about two years old. User demographic: Half of OMGS users are men - A sponsorship message at the start cites this statistic about the sexual wellness platform OMGS.
Pivotal Quotes: "“a completely new context”" — Jad Abumrad: Jad explains he will replay Mina’s counting tape within the very different framework of a remix of 'In C'. "“the original Philip Glassy kind of thing”" — Robert Krulwich: The hosts describe Terry Riley’s 'In C' as an early minimalist work that influenced later composers and styles. "“I wanted it to feel like it was washing over me, like it was sort of a rushing waterfall.”" — Zoe Keating: Keating describes the emotional image guiding her remix, emphasizing flow and immersion.
Implications: The episode suggests that iconic art stays alive when reinterpreted through personal experience, new technology, and collaboration. For listeners, it reframes classical music as playful, accessible, and adaptable rather than distant or fixed.
From the Episode
Hello, I'm Jad Ab Umrod. I'm Robert Krowich. This is Radiolab the podcast. Today on our podcast, we're going to do we're going to revisit something from our last podcast, The Numbers Show. And at the same time, we're going to travel to a completely new universe. A whole new universe. You ready for this? Well, I don't know what we're doing. You genuinely don't know what we're about to do, right? I don't know. Will you just state that for the record? Audience people, I have no idea what is about to happen. That's good. I like you in that state. So, Tim, do you have the tape of the actual? Numbers. Yeah. Okay, so here's the thing we're gonna be revisiting. Remember this piece of tape? Four, five, six? Yeah. Can you do that? One, two, three. Okay, don't touch the microphone. Oh, sure. Of course. This is from the numbers piece. Numbers pick. I'll let you touch the microphone. One, two, three, good. One, two, three. Do you want to just maybe give it set it up, give it some context? Okay, so what you're listening to is one of the stars of Radio Lab. She's now about two years old. She's actually, this is her second appearance on the program. That's right. Her name's Mina.
Okay, in 1964, there was a piece of music that we're going to talk about now called In C. In C? In C. Is that like I-N-S-E-E as in I-I-C-O? In letter C. No, it's like I-N letter C. Like in the key of C? Oh, okay. C major? And you can hear it, it's kind of a... Sort of Philip Glassy kind of thing? Actually, it was sort of the original Philip Glassy kind of thing. NC was written by a guy named Terry Riley at a time when music, classical music, had turned very, very dark. You know, people were writing all kinds of like really dissonant stuff. And it was interesting for a while, but then it became a little dull. A little hurtful, actually. People were losing interest. But then along comes our man, Terry Riley, who writes this piece in C. Very joyous. And it was like a watershed moment. I missed, I confess, I missed that moment in the cultural history of America. It just went right by me. Well, lucky for you, you've got me. No, no, seriously, like NC inspired Philip Glass and Steve Reich, and like scores and scores of movie music. And, you know, that whole explosion of minimalism. You could even say it like inspired techno and all kinds of other stuff. So, in a way, it all comes back to this piece which no one has ever heard before called NC. Oh. So, here's what I want to do.
About Radiolab
Radiolab is on a curiosity bender. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. A given episode might whirl you through science, legal history, and into the home of someone halfway across the world. The show is known for innovative sound design, smashing information into music. It is hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser.