Episode Summary
Executive Summary: The episode explores the early crypto boom through a conversation with ARK Invest’s Chris Berniske, focusing on how Bitcoin and Ethereum may be valued, why speculation is surging, and how ICOs like Aragon work. The discussion frames crypto as a new asset class with new valuation methods, but also highlights risks: thin real-world usage, extreme price speculation, and the possibility that rising token prices could make networks harder to use.
Main Topics: ARK Invest’s role in crypto investing (Priority: 4/5): Berniske explains ARK’s thematic, disruptive-innovation investing approach and how Bitcoin became a major position in its ETFs via Grayscale’s Bitcoin Investment Trust. How to value crypto assets (Priority: 5/5): He argues crypto needs new valuation frameworks based on current utility plus discounted expected utility, using remittances and gold as examples of Bitcoin’s potential network value. Bitcoin as a network-value asset (Priority: 5/5): Bitcoin is presented less like a stock and more like a network whose value depends on the volume of use cases it can support and the velocity of money. ICOs and the logic of token sales (Priority: 5/5): The conversation explains initial coin offerings as a hybrid of crowdfunding and blockchain, using Aragon as an example of raising capital for a protocol rather than a traditional company. Protocols, decentralized organizations, and governance (Priority: 4/5): Aragon is described as infrastructure for decentralized autonomous organizations, including token-based dispute resolution and governance mechanisms. Speculation versus real adoption (Priority: 5/5): The hosts and guest discuss whether crypto is mostly speculative trading at this stage, concluding that mainstream usage is still limited while developers and speculators dominate activity. Token prices versus network usability (Priority: 4/5): They examine the risk that rising token values can increase network costs, and discuss Ethereum’s 'gas' and other mechanisms meant to decouple price from usage.
Key Arguments: Crypto should be treated as a new asset class requiring new valuation tools rather than traditional equity or commodity models. Bitcoin’s value can be estimated by stacking future use cases such as remittances and gold-like store-of-value demand. Current crypto prices reflect both present utility and discounted expectations of future adoption. ICOs are a blockchain-native form of crowdfunding that raise capital for protocols, not necessarily companies. Many crypto projects are still in testnet or early-development stages, so real-world usage remains limited. Speculation is not inherently bad; it may provide capital and attention that help build new networks and protocols. However, token appreciation can raise the cost of using a network and may discourage actual adoption if not managed properly.
Data Points: ARK Invest founding date: January 2014 - Berniske says ARK was started the same month Ethereum was announced by Vitalik. ARK assets under management: approaching $1 billion - Describing the scale of ARK Invest. Bitcoin share in ARK ETF: number one position - Bitcoin is the top holding in ARK’s Next Generation Internet ETF. Remittances market size: $500 billion - Used in a valuation example for Bitcoin adoption. Bitcoin remittances assumption: 10% market share - Hypothetical scenario for estimating Bitcoin’s network value. Implied remittances value stored: $50 billion - 10% of a $500 billion remittances market. Velocity of the U.S. dollar: roughly 5 - Used as a benchmark for how often money turns over in a year. Implied Bitcoin store value for remittances use case: $10 billion - $50 billion divided by assumed velocity of 5. Global gold market size: roughly $2.5 trillion - Used as another potential Bitcoin store-of-value market. Assumed Bitcoin share of gold market: 1% - Hypothetical adoption level in the valuation framework. Implied Bitcoin value from gold use case: $25 billion - 1% of a $2.5 trillion gold market. ICO example token: ANT - Aragon’s native token in the example discussion. Bitcoin white paper release: late 2008 - Used to emphasize how early the movement still is. Remittance volume growth: 10% to 20% month over month - Berniske cites some companies using Bitcoin for remittances as hypergrowth.
Pivotal Quotes: "I think of it as a combination of current utility value plus discounted expected utility value." — Chris Berniske: His core framework for valuing crypto assets. "The users are the developers. It's not a mainstream application." — Chris Berniske: Explaining Ethereum’s early-stage adoption and who is actually using the network. "If we have too much capital sloshing back and forth between these different protocols, that may actually hurt the value of what's being built here." — Chris Berniske: A warning that speculation can interfere with network usability and development.
Implications: The episode suggests crypto should be judged as emerging infrastructure, not just tradeable tokens. For investors and users, the key tension is between speculative capital that funds innovation and token prices that may ultimately hinder adoption.
About Odd Lots
Bloomberg's Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway analyze the weird patterns, the complex issues and the newest market crazes. Join the conversation every Tuesday and Thursday for interviews with the most interesting minds in finance, economics and markets.