Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Preet Bharara interviews former FTC Chair Lina Khan about modern antitrust, explaining how her work challenged the consumer-price-only view of monopoly and focused on structural power, predatory tactics, and lost competition. They discuss bipartisan support for antitrust, Amazon’s market behavior, Google’s search monopoly ruling, and how the Trump administration may continue or weaponize FTC policy. The episode ends with a legal explainer on the Surgeon General nomination criteria.
Main Topics: Khan’s antitrust philosophy and biography (Priority: 5/5): Khan explains how her early research and law-school writing led her to challenge prevailing antitrust assumptions and later shape FTC policy. Bipartisan and populist appeal of antitrust (Priority: 4/5): The discussion explores why skepticism toward monopoly power attracts support across the political spectrum and fits a populist frame. How monopoly power is defined (Priority: 5/5): Khan distinguishes formal market-share analysis from direct evidence such as a firm raising prices or worsening quality because it faces no real competition. Amazon as the key case study (Priority: 5/5): A large portion of the interview examines Khan’s 2017 Amazon note and why low consumer prices can mask anti-competitive conduct and structural dominance. FTC enforcement under Trump and institutional durability (Priority: 4/5): Khan says the new administration has surprisingly kept major FTC actions and merger guidelines, though future direction remains uncertain. Surgeon General qualification analysis (Priority: 3/5): Preet answers listener questions about whether Casey Means meets the statutory requirements for Surgeon General, focusing on membership in the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps and public health experience.
Key Arguments: Antitrust has historically had bipartisan support, with politicians across ideologies agreeing that concentrated economic power can threaten freedom and competition. The anti-monopoly movement has gained ground because evidence increasingly shows harms like shortages, higher prices, lower wages, and weaker innovation. A monopoly can be shown not just by market share, but by behavior: a firm that can raise prices or degrade quality without losing business is exercising monopoly power. Amazon’s low prices did not necessarily mean it was pro-competitive; the company could still use predatory pricing, vertical integration, fee increases, and ranking manipulation to block rivals. The 2023 FTC Amazon case alleges the company punished sellers for offering lower prices elsewhere, increased seller fees, and used irrelevant ads/search clutter to disadvantage consumers and competitors. Competition, not a fixed “good” price level, is the core antitrust objective because it drives innovation, quality, and better outcomes over time. The Trump administration has so far shown more continuity with Khan-era FTC policy than many expected, though that could change depending on political incentives. For Surgeon General, the law is more specific than for many appointed posts: the nominee must come from the Public Health Service Commissioned Corps and have specialized training or significant public health experience.
Data Points: Age at FTC chair appointment: 32 - Khan became the youngest-ever FTC chair in 2021 under President Biden. Year Khan appointed FTC chair: 2021 - Referenced in the intro as the year she made history. Shortage example year: 2022 - Khan cited the infant formula shortage as evidence of the risks of single-factory concentration. Amazon seller fee example: $5 per $10 made - Khan used a simplified example to illustrate how Amazon can extract fees from third-party sellers. Rival platform fee example: $2 per $10 made - Used in the same example to show why sellers might prefer cheaper alternatives if not penalized. Amazon share of seller revenue: Up to 1 out of every $2 - Khan said Amazon now takes as much as 50% from businesses that sell through its platform. Years of Reagan-era reorientation: 8 years of Reagan plus 4 years of Bush - Khan contrasted prior institutional durability with the limited time available to her FTC agenda. FTC leadership tenure mentioned: 3.5 years - Khan said she had about three and a half years to build policy durability.
Pivotal Quotes: "One of the biggest ways that we've seen anti-monopoly make such advances is because the evidence has been on our side." — Lina Khan: Khan explains why anti-monopoly politics have gained traction. "A firm can behave like a monopoly when it's able to make its products worse or raise its prices for its customers without facing real consequences in the marketplace." — Lina Khan: Her plain-language definition of monopoly power. "Amazon had a policy that basically punished any business for listing a lower price on a website other than Amazon." — Lina Khan: Khan describes conduct alleged in the FTC’s Amazon case.
Implications: Listeners get a clear framework for spotting monopoly power beyond low prices. The episode suggests antitrust may remain a major, bipartisan policy battleground and that FTC enforcement could still reshape tech and platform markets.
About Pivot
With great power, comes great scrutiny. Every Tuesday and Friday, journalist Kara Swisher and NYU Professor Scott Galloway offer sharp, unfiltered insights into the biggest stories in tech, business, and politics. They make bold predictions, pick winners and losers, and bicker and banter like no one else. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.