NASA’s Home for the Bleeding Edge: The 2019 NIAC Symposium

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: This Planetary Radio episode centers on the 2019 NIAC Symposium, highlighting NASA’s program for funding radical, early-stage space concepts that may be 10+ years from flight. Matt Kaplan also pays tribute to cosmonaut Alexei Leonov, then spotlights several NIAC fellows whose projects range from laser-driven sails and solar-sail metamaterials to lunar water mining, spider-inspired probes, and novel power generation. The episode argues that even “failed” NIAC studies expand knowledge and can seed future breakthroughs.

Main Topics: Tribute to Alexei Leonov: John Logsdon reflects on Leonov’s significance as the first human to perform an EVA, a Soviet space icon, and a symbol of missed U.S.-Soviet cooperation opportunities in space. How NIAC works: Jason Derleth explains NIAC’s mission, funding structure, and selection process for very early-stage, high-risk/high-reward technologies, including phase 1, 2, and 3 studies. Value of speculative studies and failure: Derleth emphasizes that NIAC treats negative results as successes when they expand public knowledge and rule out dead-end concepts cheaply. Breakthrough propulsion and interstellar concepts: Several fellows discuss laser-pushed lightsails, self-guiding particle beams, and interstellar flyby power problems, including links to Breakthrough Starshot. Resource utilization and infrastructure beyond Earth: Projects include lunar polar mining, radiation-shielding water bags on spacecraft, and asteroid water extraction—concepts aimed at enabling sustained human and robotic presence. Bioinspired and unconventional robotics: Ideas such as spider-inspired microprobes and soft asteroid-mining robots show NIAC’s openness to biomimicry and highly unusual architectures. Science, inspiration, and public engagement: Mae Jemison argues for preserving childlike curiosity, connecting extraordinary future goals to present-day creativity and science literacy.

Key Arguments: NIAC exists to test concepts that are too speculative for standard mission development but may become transformative in the future. Small investments can quickly identify whether a radical idea is physically plausible and mission-relevant before larger funds are committed. Failures are not wasted spending if they definitively show a concept will not work under current assumptions. Non-traditional contributors—garage inventors, students, and people outside aerospace—can produce genuinely valuable space concepts. Advanced propulsion and power systems are central to future exploration of the Moon, asteroids, and interstellar space. Building excitement and curiosity in science is essential because innovation depends on people feeling permission to imagine big ideas.

Data Points: Saturn moons discovered: 20 new moons - Jason Davis’ Downlink update reported the discovery of 20 additional moons around Saturn. Saturn total moons: 82 - The new discoveries raised Saturn’s officially known moon count above Jupiter’s. Jupiter total moons: 79 - Used as comparison in the Saturn moons news item. Hubble time in space: 10,764 Earth days (~30 Earth years) - The episode notes Hubble has been in space for a full Saturn year. InSight mole funding spent: $100,000 - Jason Derleth cites a NIAC study that showed an orbital-debris-clearing concept would not work effectively. NIAC Phase 1 award: $125,000 over 9 months - Derleth describes the initial NIAC study structure. NIAC Phase 2 award: $500,000 over 2 years - Derleth outlines the second-stage funding level. NIAC proposal volume: 200-300 proposals per year - Derleth explains the program receives many more proposals than it can fund. NIAC current fellows: 12 phase ones, 6 phase twos, 8 phase twos from the prior year, 2 phase threes - Program staffing and current cohort counts. Light-sail propulsion target: 0.2c - A NIAC study described accelerating a chip-scale spacecraft to two-tenths the speed of light. Interstellar travel time to Alpha Centauri: ~20 years - Estimated for a probe moving at 0.2c. Data return time: ~5 years - Estimated time for returned data from the interstellar probe concept. Laser array size mentioned: 50 very high-power lasers - Used in the concept for launching a tiny sail to interstellar speeds. Solar-system beam propagation distance: about half an AU - For the self-guiding beam concept before solar wind attenuation degrades it. Lunar mining site size: about the size of Manhattan - Joel Surcell describes a polar lunar region rich in ice. Lunar tower height: at least 1 kilometer - The proposed tensegrity lunar power tower can self-erect to this scale. Lunar payload fraction: 20% of its mass as payload - Surcell describes tower launch/deployment capability. Power output: 1.5 megawatts - A lunar lander/tower system could deploy this level of power. Spider-probe count: up to 100,000 probes - Yuguo/Johs West Virginia University concept for tiny Mars probes. Spider-probe mass: ~50 milligrams - The microprobe estimate discussed in the interview. Sun-facing sail mission: 12 sails - Grover Schwartzlander envisions a constellation of solar sails for polar solar observation. Asteroid-mining spacecraft mass: 116 kilograms - Jay McMahon notes the current design mass of the soft-robot asteroid craft. Interplanetary mission power example: 5 megawatts - Referenced in the self-guiding beam/propulsion discussion as a feasible power budget to scope. WASP-121b orbital period: 1.1 Earth days - Bruce Betts highlights this extreme exoplanet in the astronomy segment.

Pivotal Quotes: "In fact, I've often said that NIAC and other early Stage technology development programs ought to be looking at our failures as successes because we're still adding to human knowledge and making it publicly available." — Jason Derleth: Explaining why even unsuccessful NIAC studies matter "We need better, faster, cheaper, and more powerful technologies to explore space." — Jeffrey Landis: Describing why radical concepts are necessary for future exploration "We love to be able to bring that forward and give people permission to recapture that excitement." — Mae Jemison: On preserving curiosity, inspiration, and scientific enthusiasm

Implications: The episode frames NIAC as a pipeline for future space revolutions: cheap, early validation can de-risk bold ideas, inspire students and entrepreneurs, and seed missions for the Moon, asteroids, and interstellar space.