Noreena Hertz on the Lonely Century

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Russ Roberts and Norena Hertz discuss loneliness as more than isolation: a growing sense of disconnection from family, friends, institutions, and society. Hertz argues it has risen sharply due to social media, reduced in-person interaction, weakening community institutions, and neoliberal culture, while Roberts pushes back on the capitalism explanation and emphasizes family, religion, and individual responsibility.

Main Topics: Defining loneliness broadly (Priority: 5/5): Hertz defines loneliness as disconnection from loved ones and from civic, political, and institutional life, drawing on thinkers like Arendt and Durkheim. Evidence that loneliness is rising (Priority: 5/5): The conversation reviews survey trends showing growing loneliness since the 1970s, accelerating after 2010 and during COVID, especially among youth. Technology and social media (Priority: 5/5): Both speakers examine how smartphones, social media, and Zoom can deepen disconnection, reduce face-to-face skills, and intensify exclusion. Causes of loneliness (Priority: 4/5): Hertz argues loneliness is driven by less shared activity, weaker community infrastructure, and neoliberal capitalism; Roberts counters that family decline and general social change matter more than ideology. Role of institutions and community spaces (Priority: 4/5): Libraries, youth clubs, churches, cafes, and workplaces are presented as crucial 'third spaces' that foster belonging and social trust. Solutions at individual, corporate, and government levels (Priority: 5/5): Hertz advocates digital limits, kindness, cross-group contact, and regulation of social media, while Roberts stresses bottom-up change and cautions against overreliance on government. Tribalism and belonging (Priority: 4/5): The discussion closes on the idea that humans seek tribes; the challenge is to create belonging without hardening into exclusion or political polarization.

Key Arguments: Loneliness should be understood as a broader condition of disconnection from people and institutions, not just being physically alone. Loneliness appears to be rising steadily, with especially sharp increases among young people since about 2010 and after the pandemic. Social media can make people feel more excluded, visible, and judged, and experimental evidence suggests reducing Facebook use lowers loneliness and increases in-person interaction. Face-to-face interaction provides richer emotional and cognitive cues than screen-based communication, helping empathy and social bonding. The decline of shared civic and communal activity leaves people with fewer opportunities to build relationships and practice social skills. Neoliberal capitalism, in Hertz's view, encouraged hyper-individualism and weakened communal infrastructure through austerity and inequality. Roberts argues the family's decline and broader cultural shifts are more important explanations than capitalism or ideology. Businesses have incentives to address loneliness because workers with stronger social ties are more productive and less likely to quit. Governments can help by funding libraries, youth clubs, and community centers, and by regulating harmful social media practices. Individuals can reduce loneliness through digital sabbaths, local engagement, cross-ideological conversation, and simple acts of reaching out to others.

Data Points: Measurement era for loneliness: 1970s - Hertz says loneliness began being measured scientifically in the 1970s using UCLA survey questions. UK 18-24 year olds reporting loneliness: 3 in 5 - Hertz cites pre-pandemic UK data on young adults often or sometimes feeling lonely. UK 10-16 year olds reporting loneliness: about half - Hertz cites repeated youth surveys showing significant loneliness among adolescents. Americans feeling lonely often or sometimes: 2 in 5 - Hertz gives a pre-pandemic U.S. estimate. Millennial Americans with no friends: around 1 in 5 - Roberts cites this as a striking indicator of social isolation, about double a decade earlier. Women age 18-24 in UK experiencing Facebook abuse: 1/3 - Hertz cites online abuse as a source of exclusion and distress. Stanford Facebook deactivation study sample: 3,000 students - Hertz describes a randomized study on Facebook use and loneliness. Stanford Facebook deactivation study treatment group: 1,500 students - Half were instructed to delete Facebook from devices for two months. Stanford Facebook deactivation study control group: 1,500 students - Half used Facebook as usual. Facebook deactivation outcome: less lonely and significantly happier - Hertz reports the no-Facebook group became less lonely, happier, and more likely to spend time with friends and family in person. Loneliness risk with no friend at work: 6 times more likely to quit - Hertz says workers without a friend at work are much likelier to leave their employer. Firefighters eating together performance: twice as well - Hertz cites research that firefighters who ate together performed much better than those who did not. Cisco kindness reward: up to $10,000 - Hertz describes a company program rewarding employees for kindness and helpfulness. UK libraries closed in 2019: 160 - Hertz uses library closures as evidence of weakened community infrastructure. U.S. federal funding for public libraries: fell by a third - Hertz cites a multi-year decline in library funding.

Pivotal Quotes: "what I'm talking about is a sense of feeling disconnected, disconnected from friends, from family, from those closest to you, but also disconnected in a broader sense" — Norena Hertz: Her definition of loneliness at the start of the interview. "I do believe that the particular form of capitalism that really took hold from the 1980s onwards, neoliberal capitalism... has a lot to answer for when it comes to how lonely and disconnected we currently feel." — Norena Hertz: Her central causal argument about neoliberal capitalism and loneliness. "I think the solution has to come from the bottom up. I think it has to come from us." — Russ Roberts: Roberts’ critique of overreliance on government and emphasis on individual action.

Implications: The episode suggests loneliness is a structural social problem requiring action by individuals, employers, and public institutions. For listeners, the practical message is to rebuild real-world ties, limit digital overuse, and invest in spaces and habits that create belonging.