Conversations With Tyler
Conversations With Tyler

Rachel Harmon on Policing

Long before becoming a legal scholar focused on police reform, Rachel Harmon studied engineering at MIT and graduate philosophy at LSE. "You could call it a random walk," she says, "or you could say that I'm really interested in the structure of things." But despite her expe

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Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Rachel Harmon argues that U.S. policing problems stem less from one bad lever than from fragmented institutions, weak accountability, and misaligned incentives. She favors national standards, better data, transparency, and more community-centered, harm-minimizing policing over simplistic fixes like body cameras, demographic changes, or more arrests.

Main Topics: Why policing data is poor in the U.S. (Priority: 5/5): Harmon explains that the sheer number and diversity of police agencies make coherent national data collection difficult, and that the system historically prioritizes crime and effectiveness over documenting police-caused harm such as stops, force, and coercion. Body cameras, force, and the limits of technology (Priority: 5/5): She treats body cameras as a form of data rather than a silver bullet, noting that research on whether they reduce complaints or force is mixed and that cameras alone do not change behavior without incentives and standards. Department size, consolidation, and culture (Priority: 4/5): Harmon argues that many tiny departments cannot sustain meaningful accountability systems, making some consolidation useful, though not a cure-all because local diversity and control matter too. Accountability, DOJ power, and federal funding (Priority: 5/5): She supports DOJ pattern-and-practice suits and national standards, but criticizes federal subsidies that can incentivize harmful policing by rewarding arrests or aggressive tactics instead of accountability and harm reduction. Selection, diversity, and why composition alone is insufficient (Priority: 4/5): Harmon says improving officer demographics, education, or age may help at the margins, but police behavior is mainly shaped by departmental culture, supervision, incentives, and the capacity to use alternatives to force. Misconduct, sexual abuse, and internal reporting failures (Priority: 5/5): She describes police sexual assault as underreported, difficult to prove, and often ignored by departments, arguing for mandatory internal reporting duties and a culture that prevents officers from protecting abusive peers. Criminal justice scope, arrests, and legal system overload (Priority: 4/5): Harmon criticizes overuse of arrests for low-level conduct, arguing that many cases should be handled by social workers or other non-police responses, and that reducing the scope of the criminal system would improve fairness and functioning.

Key Arguments: Police data is hard to collect because America has thousands of fragmented agencies; improving it requires a national effort and standardized definitions. Body cameras are useful as evidence, but their effects on complaints and force are empirically mixed and depend on whether departments create real consequences for misconduct. Department culture matters more than officer selection alone; officers are shaped by incentives, supervision, and discipline rather than preexisting traits. Small departments often cannot maintain robust accountability structures, so some consolidation would improve standards, though it may reduce local responsiveness. DOJ pattern-and-practice litigation is valuable symbolically and practically because it signals federal civil-rights commitment and can reform major departments. Federal grants often aim at effectiveness, not accountability, and can unintentionally encourage harmful policing by rewarding arrests and aggression. Diversity, education, and age may help, but they are not substitutes for better institutional incentives and alternatives to force. Police sexual abuse is more common and less visible than the public realizes; departments often fail to investigate adequately, allowing serial abuse. The best reforms are national standards, transparency, community input, and internalization of costs so political actors bear the consequences of bad policing. The criminal justice system is too broad; many low-level offenses clog courts and could be better handled through social services or non-carceral responses.

Data Points: Number of law enforcement agencies: More than 18,000 (later corrected to a little more than 12,000 local departments) - Used to explain why national data collection and standardization are difficult Small departments: About half of local departments are fewer than 10 officers - Supports the argument that very small agencies struggle to maintain meaningful accountability systems Women in policing: Around one-eighth of police officers are women - Raised in a discussion of whether gender diversity might reduce misconduct Police salary change example: 50% more - Used hypothetically when comparing incentives in law and policing Crime reporting history: Uniform Crime Reports for almost 100 years - Example of successful standardized data collection for crimes, contrasted with weak data on police behavior Arrest reduction in New York: Dramatically dropped arrests for misdemeanor offenses without a substantial increase in crime - Used to argue that reducing arrests does not necessarily create bedlam Murder rate decline in New York City: About a factor of 20 since its peak - Referenced when discussing long-run crime reduction and uncertainty about causes Traffic compliance reminder effect: 10% increase - Mentioned as an example of how small reminders can change court appearance behavior Minimum age standard: Many states set it at 18 - Used when discussing whether higher age standards should apply to police recruits

Pivotal Quotes: "So far, body cams are anecdote. As machine learning gets better, they are becoming data and they're getting more useful in that way." — Rachel Harmon: On the limits and future potential of body cameras "What we have to do is give officers the capacity... and then give them the backup time, if necessary, the cover to engage in less forceful responses." — Rachel Harmon: On what actually reduces unnecessary force "I think the more we internalize the full costs of policing and make sure they're fairly distributed, the better policing will be." — Rachel Harmon: On accountability and aligning incentives

Implications: The episode pushes listeners toward structural reform: better data, national standards, transparency, and fewer low-value arrests. It suggests policing improves less through symbolism or technology than through incentives, culture, and accountable institutions.

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About Conversations With Tyler

Tyler Cowen engages today’s deepest thinkers in wide-ranging explorations of their work, the world, and everything in between. New conversations every other Wednesday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

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