Russ Roberts on Israel and Life as an Immigrant

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Tyler Cowen discusses his first months as president of Shalem College in Jerusalem and uses his move to Israel to explore immigration, Israeli culture, religion, politics, media, and philosophy. He contrasts Israeli and American norms, argues that Israeli society is shaped by military service, negotiation, and identity, and reflects on utilitarianism, trade, and the limits of “fixing” the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Main Topics: Life as an immigrant and university president in Israel (Priority: 5/5): Cowen describes his transition from American economist to Israeli university president, noting the managerial, fundraising, curriculum, and cultural challenges of running Shalem College. Israeli social norms and daily life (Priority: 5/5): He contrasts Israeli directness, bargaining culture, legal/administrative complexity, and the emotional intensity of living in Jerusalem with American habits and expectations. Military service, conscription, and social cohesion (Priority: 5/5): The conversation examines the Israeli draft, reserve duty, cyber warfare, and how military service socializes young Israelis and contributes to national solidarity. Religion, Judaism, and the Jewish state (Priority: 5/5): They discuss kosher certification, the role of the rabbinate, secular-religious tensions, the meaning of Jewish identity in public life, and the tradeoffs between democracy and an ethnically Jewish state. Media, podcasting, and Israeli television (Priority: 4/5): Cowen reflects on time-zone challenges for podcasting from Israel, the continued importance of newspapers, and why Israeli TV dramas often excel at long-form storytelling and emotional restraint. Philosophy: utilitarianism, choice, and the limits of economics (Priority: 4/5): Cowen rejects pure Benthamite utilitarianism, arguing that major life decisions and policy choices require plural moral judgments rather than a single measurable utility scale. Israeli-Palestinian conflict and realism about solutions (Priority: 5/5): They discuss why two-state or one-state solutions may not work, why commercial interaction matters but is not a panacea, and why the better goal may be improving life rather than seeking a final fix.

Key Arguments: Starting a new university is difficult everywhere, but in Israel it is especially constrained by heavy regulation, approval processes, and the need to compete on scholarship and reputation. Israeli society is more direct and more negotiative than American society; bargaining is embedded in everyday life and can be disorienting for newcomers. The draft and reserve system still play a major social role in Israel even as cyber warfare changes the military’s strategic needs. Israel’s cohesion may rely less on the army than on external threats, shared identity, and the lived experience of a Jewish state. Israeli media and TV dramas benefit from a demanding audience, different market incentives, and a storytelling tradition that supports nuanced, restrained tension. Pure utilitarianism is inadequate because human values such as pride, meaning, identity, and purpose cannot be reduced to a single cardinal metric. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is likely not “solvable” in a neat way; policymakers should focus on improving conditions and reducing harm rather than expecting a final settlement. Trade can encourage peace, but it can also strengthen weapons and bloc identities; its pacifying effect is real but overstated. Israel’s Jewish character matters more today because antisemitism remains a real threat, making a Jewish state feel less optional than it once did. Economic logic alone cannot resolve decisions about immigration, labor, religion, or national identity because people willingly pay higher prices for cultural and political goals.

Data Points: Shalem College age: 9th year - Cowen notes Shalem is in its ninth year when discussing starting a new university in Israel. Length of presidency: 6 months - He says he has been on the job and on the ground in Israel for six months. Student age in Israel: 23–24 years old - He notes Israeli students typically begin college later than American students because of army service. Classwork missed by students: first 3 weeks - Some students missed the first three weeks of class due to reserve duty or projects. Podcast work hours from Israel: 3 p.m. to 7 p.m. - He explains that U.S.-based interviews are compressed into the late afternoon/evening in Israel. Opan attendance: 22 of 23 or 21 of 23 classmates - His wife’s Hebrew class is largely made up of Arab Israelis. Hiking site age: 2,000 years old - He describes Jewish presence at Gamla as dating back roughly two millennia. Walk from home to Kotel: 18–20 minutes - He says he lives within walking distance of the Western Wall. Alumni gala attendance: 125 alums - He mentions an upcoming alumni dinner with 125 alumni attending. Years at George Mason / suburban DC: 18 years - He says 18 of his 67 years were spent in suburban Washington, D.C. Israel’s age as a state: 70 years, heading toward 75 - He comments on Israel’s institutional durability while discussing labor and immigration.

Pivotal Quotes: "We lose money on every student and we make it up by volume." — Tyler Cowen: Describing Shalem College’s unusual business model and scholarship structure. "Insofar as we can aggregate, and to make a choice, a policy choice, you have to aggregate in some manner. But I think we aggregate by making moral judgments about different kinds of well-being." — Tyler Cowen: Rejecting pure utilitarianism and defending plural moral reasoning. "It may not be fixable." — Tyler Cowen: Summarizing his view that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict may not have a clean solution.

Implications: The conversation suggests identity, institutions, and cultural norms matter as much as economics in Israel. For listeners, it reframes debates about universities, media, religion, and the conflict as problems of lived social order, not just policy optimization.