Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Jason Jacobs interviews Cody Finke, CEO of Brimstone Energy, about a novel approach to decarbonizing cement by making ordinary Portland cement without CO2 from limestone. Finke explains the chemistry, the business case, and why partnering with incumbents may be the fastest path to scale. The conversation centers on technoeconomics, industrial adoption barriers, and Brimstone’s plan to move from pilot to commercial deployment.
Main Topics: MCJ membership and community (Priority: 2/5): Jason opens with an overview of the MyClimate Journey membership community, emphasizing its role as a peer network for climate-focused builders, operators, and funders. Brimstone’s core technology (Priority: 5/5): Cody explains that Brimstone makes ordinary Portland cement using calcium silicate rocks instead of limestone, eliminating the CO2 released from limestone decomposition. Cement chemistry and emissions sources (Priority: 5/5): The discussion breaks down conventional cement production, including the kiln process, the role of supplementary cementitious materials, and the split between process and fuel emissions. Cody Finke’s background and company origin story (Priority: 4/5): Finke traces his path from climate concern and chemistry studies to wastewater treatment, hydrogen electrolysis, and eventually cement, highlighting how technoeconomic analysis shaped Brimstone. Why cement is hard to decarbonize (Priority: 5/5): The guests discuss both scientific and business-model barriers: emissions are process-driven, the industry is concentrated and risk-averse, and incumbents have strong economies of scale. Go-to-market and scaling strategy (Priority: 5/5): Brimstone’s strategy is to prove the technology at pilot scale, then license it or partner with major cement companies rather than compete head-on as a new producer. Funding, hiring, and near-term priorities (Priority: 4/5): The company discusses capital needs for the pilot, preference for non-dilutive capital where possible, and hiring needs across engineering, business development, and finance.
Key Arguments: Brimstone’s process is not carbon capture; it avoids producing the CO2 in the first place by sourcing lime from rocks that do not contain attached CO2. Most cement emissions come from chemistry, not fuel, so decarbonization requires new process chemistry rather than only cleaner energy. A lower-CO2 product only scales if it is also cheaper or operationally superior; cost and utility drive adoption in heavy industry. The cement industry’s concentration and risk aversion make direct competition unrealistic; partnering with incumbents is the practical commercialization path. Brimstone’s process is designed to preserve existing downstream cement and concrete workflows, minimizing switching costs for customers. Market conditions have changed because traditional supplementary cementitious materials are becoming scarcer as coal and steel byproducts decline. The company believes the pilot must be representative of the final plant so it can de-risk commercialization and convince financiers and incumbents.
Data Points: MCJ Slack membership: more than 1,300 members - Jason describes the MyClimate Journey membership community. Cement/concrete market opportunity: $1 trillion - Jason frames the addressable market for cement and concrete. Share of greenhouse gases: 5.5% - Jason states the cement and concrete industry’s share of greenhouse gases. Share of global CO2 emissions: approximately 8% - Jason compares cement emissions to global CO2 output. Comparable emissions reference: same emissions as cars - Jason uses cars as a benchmark for cement’s CO2 footprint. Process emissions share: about 60% - Cody explains that roughly 60% of cement emissions come from limestone decomposition. Fuel emissions share: about 40% - Cody explains that roughly 40% of cement emissions come from burning fossil fuels. Kiln temperature for decomposition: about 900°C - Cody describes when limestone decomposes into lime and CO2. Kiln temperature for clinkering: about 1400°C - Cody describes the higher-temperature step that forms Portland cement. Existing cement company concentration: five to ten giant companies - Cody says the industry is dominated by a handful of large players. Global production share owned by incumbents: 70% - Cody says these large players control most cement production. MCJ community company-building outcomes: 1,300+ members, multiple founding teams, nonprofits, hires, capital raises, funds, events, open source projects - Jason lists outputs from the community. Brimstone venture funding: just over $5 million - Cody reports the company’s equity capital raised. Brimstone grant funding: about $2 million - Cody reports non-dilutive financing. Pilot/commercial plant size: 1–2 million tons per year - Cody discusses the intended scale of future plants. Conventional plant cost: about $500 million - Cody estimates the cost of a standard 1–2 million ton/year cement plant. Brimstone plant cost estimate: about $600 million - Cody suggests Brimstone’s fully installed plant may cost somewhat more than conventional. Requested pilot capital: multiple millions of dollars - Cody says the pilot will require several million dollars to build. DCS/market decarbonization target mentioned: 60% Portland cement / 40% SCM by 2050 - Cody references Paris-aligned targets for cement composition. Current major company mix example: 70% Portland cement / 30% SCM - Cody cites an annual report from LafargeHolcim/Heidelberg-style incumbent describing current mixes. Incumbent near-term target example: 68% Portland cement - Cody says one major company’s decarbonization plan is only to move to 68% Portland cement.
Pivotal Quotes: "We are just not making the CO2." — Cody Finke: Explaining Brimstone’s core process distinction from carbon capture and conventional cement production. "Decarbonizing cement isn't just a cheap clean energy story. It's a new chemistry story." — Cody Finke: Describing why cement is hard to decarbonize and why process innovation matters. "Lower CO2 alone isn't nearly enough for anything." — Cody Finke: Arguing that adoption in heavy industry requires lower cost or better performance, not emissions reduction alone.
Implications: Brimstone’s model suggests industrial decarbonization can succeed by preserving incumbent workflows while changing upstream chemistry. If validated, it could unlock a scalable path for cement and other hard-to-abate sectors through partnerships, not disruption.