Sunday Pick: Margaret Atwood on what AI can’t replace | from ReThinking with Adam Grant

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Adam Grant interviews Margaret Atwood about her first memoir, The Book of Lives, and her skeptical, nuanced views on AI, originality, and creativity. Atwood argues AI can mimic formulas and assist with mundane tasks, but cannot replace human voice, inner life, or literary originality. The conversation also explores banned books, bullying, heroism, enemies, and Atwood’s lifelong habit of turning experience into art.

Main Topics: AI and the limits of machine creativity (Priority: 5/5): Atwood distinguishes between competent imitation and true originality, arguing AI can reproduce formulas and surface features of style but not inner life, soul, or the novel’s deeper emotional complexity. Writing, style, and pastiche (Priority: 4/5): She reflects on exercises in mimicking authors’ voices and explains that such imitation is useful training, while warning that AI’s imitations often miss essential narrative logic and context. Memoir as remembered experience (Priority: 4/5): Atwood explains why she finally wrote a memoir, emphasizing that memoir is selective and memory-based rather than a full autobiography, focused on what still feels vivid and meaningful. Bullying, power, and enemies (Priority: 5/5): She discusses childhood bullying, how power dynamics work, and why monsters and enemies are necessary for the existence of heroes, while cautioning against giving harmful people emotional power. Banned books and reading habits (Priority: 4/5): Atwood argues book bans often increase curiosity, and she uses examples from reading studies and her own youth to show that forbidden books can expand literacy, civic engagement, and imagination. Fearlessness, age, and artistic longevity (Priority: 3/5): Atwood reflects on being uncancelable at her age, her refusal to use AI in her own writing, and her belief that writers must keep doing the work if they want to keep producing quality art.

Key Arguments: AI can imitate style and produce moderately competent formulaic writing, but it cannot yet create original literary voice or deep character interiority. Language models are more useful for adjunct tasks like definitions, thesaurus-like help, and perhaps scheduling than for producing art. The biggest societal danger of AI is deepfakes and political propaganda, not replacement of serious writers. Book bans often backfire by making books more attractive and may not harm children; exposure to banned books can correlate with more reading and civic engagement. Memoir is not exhaustive autobiography; it is a curated record of remembered highs, lows, and absurdities. Bullying and intimidation lose power when the target recognizes that the aggressor’s authority depends on belief and fear. Heroes need monsters, but monsters do not need heroes; opportunities for heroism usually arise from real danger and conflict. Reading forbidden or challenging books can be educational and formative, often expanding curiosity rather than corrupting readers. Writing is work and skill, not just inspiration; one must actually sit down and do it to improve. Atwood prefers not to use AI in her own creative writing because she sees it as a shortcut inconsistent with her work ethic and artistic values.

Data Points: Age at memoir publication: 86 - Atwood says The Book of Lives is her first memoir, written at age 86. Number of books trained into AI models: dozens - Grant notes that Atwood’s books were ingested by AI companies to train large language models. Timeframe of the interview's earlier reference: a few years ago - Grant recalls speaking with Atwood previously about procrastination. Time since the Trump-photo anecdote: a decade ago - Atwood references a photographer asking Trump about chaos about ten years earlier. Sample size in banned-books study: 283 students - Grant cites a study involving Texas teenagers and banned-book exposure. Subgroup with mental health symptoms in the study: 19 students - Grant notes a subset with both high engagement with banned books and mental health symptoms. Number of girls bullying Atwood in school: 3 - Atwood recalls a trio of nine-year-old girls tormenting her. Public universities in Singapore mentioned in ad copy: 6 - A sponsored segment mentions Singapore University of Social Sciences as one of Singapore’s six public universities. Application deadline mentioned in ad copy: March 31 - Sponsored call-to-action for part-time undergraduate programs.

Pivotal Quotes: "It is what they used to say: garbage in, garbage out." — Margaret Atwood: Atwood explains why AI can only recombine what it has been trained on and cannot generate true originality on its own. "You realize that while heroes need the monster, the monster does not need the hero." — Margaret Atwood: Atwood discusses power, heroism, and why real danger is often required for people to become heroes. "The most important thing about it is its ability to create deep fakes for political propaganda purposes." — Margaret Atwood: Atwood identifies the major social risk she sees in AI.

Implications: Listeners are urged to view AI as a tool for limited, formulaic tasks—not a substitute for human imagination—and to see banned books and difficult reading as potentially enriching rather than harmful. The episode also reinforces Atwood’s broader warning: power, propaganda, and fear are bigger threats than literary imitation.