Animal Spirits Podcast
Animal Spirits Podcast

Talk Your Book: Positive and Negative Compounding: Trading Direxion Leveraged ETFs

On today's show we speak with Dave Mazza, head of product at Direxion about trading levered ETFs, and other products they're working on. Find complete shownotes on our blogs... Ben Carlson’s A Wealth of Common Sense Michael Batnick’s The Irrelevant Investor Like us on Facebook And feel fre

Featured Speakers

The Compound HostDave Mazza Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: This episode demystifies Direction’s leveraged and inverse ETFs, explaining that they are designed for tactical, daily use rather than buy-and-hold investing. Dave Mazza argues their outcomes depend heavily on volatility and return path, and introduces newer Direction products aimed at longer-term, thematic portfolio construction, including relative-weight, flight-to-safety, ESG, and quality strategies.

Main Topics: How leveraged ETFs work (Priority: 5/5): Mazza explains that leveraged ETFs aim to deliver a multiple of an index’s daily return using exposure plus swaps, with products like SPXL targeting 3x the S&P 500 daily move and inverse products targeting the opposite. Volatility, daily reset, and compounding (Priority: 5/5): The hosts and Mazza discuss how daily rebalancing can create positive compounding in smooth markets but negative compounding in choppy ones, causing long-term performance to diverge from simple 3x expectations. Best use cases: tactical trading and hedging (Priority: 5/5): Direction positions its leverage/inverse products as tools for frequent traders and occasional hedgers, not long-term holders; Mazza emphasizes that users need precision and ongoing attention. Product evolution beyond 3x leverage (Priority: 4/5): Direction is broadening beyond leveraged ETFs into relative-weight and factor-based ETFs designed to be more suitable for buy-and-hold investors while still expressing active views. Relative-weight thematic ETFs (Priority: 4/5): New 150/50 structures let investors overweight one style or factor while shorting another, such as growth vs. value, cyclicals vs. defensives, or U.S. vs. international, with gross exposure of 200% and net exposure of 100%. Risk management, transparency, and structure (Priority: 4/5): Mazza explains how these ETFs are built using holdings, swaps, and collateral; he contrasts Direction’s products with fragile volatility products like XIV and stresses transparency and prospectus risk controls. Operational complexity of ETF creation (Priority: 3/5): The hosts note the behind-the-scenes trading, counterparties, and staff required to run these funds, highlighting how much infrastructure supports seemingly simple ETF trades.

Key Arguments: Leveraged ETFs are built to deliver a multiple of the underlying index’s daily return, not a long-term multiple over months or years. The key determinant of whether returns resemble the intended multiple is the volatility path; smoother trends help, choppier markets hurt. In volatile markets, even a correct directional view can suffer from negative compounding, especially for inverse products. These products are primarily for tactical traders who monitor positions frequently, not passive investors. Leverage/inverse ETFs can also serve as short-term hedges because they provide scaled exposure with relatively small capital outlays. Direction’s newer 150/50 ETFs aim to make factor and theme tilts more efficient and more suitable for longer holding periods. Relative-weight ETFs attempt to capture an active view, such as growth over value, without the full daily-reset issues of 3x funds. Direction is expanding into long-only, diversified, and factor-oriented strategies to reach investors beyond its traditional leveraged-ETF audience.

Data Points: Direction product age: About a decade - The firm has been known for leveraged ETFs for roughly 10 years. SPXL intended exposure: 3x the daily return of the S&P 500 - Mazza described Direction’s flagship leveraged long ETF. XPXS intended exposure: -3x the daily return of the S&P 500 - Inverse version discussed as the opposite exposure. Retail participation: 60% to 70% - Mazza said most users of these products are retail investors, not hedge funds. SPXL 5-year performance: Up 240% - Discussed as an example of how the product can outperform in a low-volatility bull market. S&P 500 5-year performance: Up 77% - Used as the benchmark comparison for SPXL. SPXL 10-year performance: Up 35% per year - Hosts noted the product has compounded strongly over the last decade. 2018 drawdown example: S&P 500 down about 20%; leveraged fund down almost 50% - Illustrated the downside amplification and volatility drag. Potential crisis downside: 90% to 95% down - Hosts suggested a 2008-like scenario could have devastated a 3x leveraged product. Relative-weight gross exposure: 200% - Described for the 150/50 ETF structure. Relative-weight net exposure: 100% - 150% long and 50% short creates net long exposure. ESNG long basket: 100 stocks - Top ESG names selected within sectors for the long side. QMJ long basket: 100 S&P 500 stocks - Highest-quality companies in the index are held long. Rebalance frequency: Quarterly - Used for relative-weight and related factor strategies.

Pivotal Quotes: "These are really intended for tactical traders who are going to own them and look at them on a daily basis." — Dave Mazza: Explaining who should use leveraged and inverse ETFs "The goal is to deliver this on a daily basis." — Dave Mazza: Clarifying why long-term outcomes can diverge from expectations "It sounds like you've got something for everyone or no one, but there's a lot." — Ben Carlson: Wrapping up Direction’s expanded product lineup

Implications: Listeners should treat leveraged ETFs as short-term tools, not passive holdings. Direction’s newer products show how ETF structure is evolving toward more nuanced, thematic, and factor-based portfolio tools for both traders and longer-term investors.

🔓 Sign Up for Unlimited Episode Search

About Animal Spirits Podcast

Animal Spirits is a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, listening to and watching. Look for new episodes every Wednesday morning. See our disclosures here - https://ritholtzwealth.com/podcast-youtube-disclosures/

View all episodes from Animal Spirits Podcast