The President's Economic Advisers with Simon Bowmaker

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Simon Bowmaker discusses his book on economists inside the White House and other executive-branch roles, arguing that economists have been influential, especially during crises, by bringing data, evidence, and a framework for spotting bad policy ideas. The conversation explores how economists influence government, the learning curve from academia to Washington, and how the Trump administration reduced economists’ role.

Main Topics: The book’s purpose and scope (Priority: 5/5): Bowmaker explains that his book, When the President Calls, is based on interviews with 35 policymakers and economists across five decades, from Nixon to Trump, focusing on personalities, pressure, and policy-making in the executive branch. Where economists work in government (Priority: 5/5): The discussion covers major executive-branch roles economists occupy, including the Treasury, Council of Economic Advisers, Office of Management and Budget, and the National Economic Council, and how these roles vary in influence and function. Economists as policy guards against bad ideas (Priority: 5/5): Bowmaker argues that economists are valuable not only for proposing policy but also for preventing harmful ones from advancing, especially when they bring empirical evidence and incentive-based reasoning to debates. Crisis policymaking and economist influence (Priority: 4/5): The interview emphasizes that economists are most important during crises such as inflation episodes and the financial crisis, when their expertise helps guide emergency responses and stabilize the economy. Trump-era downgrade of economists (Priority: 4/5): Bowmaker says the Trump administration reduced the status and influence of economic advisers, especially by removing cabinet-level status from the Council of Economic Advisers and favoring political preferences over economic consensus. Academia versus Washington (Priority: 4/5): The conversation highlights the sharp adjustment academics face when entering government: faster deadlines, coalition-building, more infighting, and much less time for reflection or error correction. Personalities and access in the interviews (Priority: 3/5): The host and guest note that many prominent economists and policymakers were unusually generous with their time, enabling candid conversations and memorable personal stories such as Art Laffer’s hospitality and Greenspan’s musical background.

Key Arguments: Economists play an important and often underappreciated role in the executive branch by supplying evidence-based analysis and a disciplined framework for evaluating policy. Their greatest value may be in preventing harmful policies from being adopted, not just in designing new ones. The influence of economists has grown over the last 50 years, especially in crisis settings where technical expertise is crucial. Different White House roles vary: the CEA is mainly advisory, while Treasury, OMB, and NEC are more operational and therefore attract different kinds of economists. Academic economists often struggle in Washington because policy work requires rapid answers, coalition-building, and political awareness rather than slow scholarly deliberation. The Trump administration was less receptive to economists because their views on trade and immigration often conflicted with the president’s priorities. The book is intended to show that economics is not just technical theory; it has practical relevance in presidential decision-making.

Data Points: Number of interviewees: 35 - Bowmaker interviewed 35 policymakers and economists for the book. Time span covered: Last 50 years - The book covers White House economic policymaking from Nixon through Trump. Presidents covered: 9 presidents - Bowmaker says the interviews span nine presidents, from Nixon to Trump. Book-writing duration: 7 years - It took Bowmaker seven years to complete the book. Major executive-branch offices covered: 4 - He focused on the Treasury, Council of Economic Advisers, Office of Management and Budget, and the National Economic Council. Council of Economic Advisers staff size: Roughly 30 to 40 staff - Bowmaker describes the CEA as a small unit with a chair, two members, senior economists, and research assistants. Policy response window in Washington: 48 hours - Academic economists in DC may be asked to provide answers within 48 hours. Typical academic research timeline: 12 to 18 months or 2 years - Bowmaker contrasts policy deadlines with the slower pace of academic research.

Pivotal Quotes: "I think the power of economic thinking and the unique skills that, you know, special framework that we bring to the table was of paramount importance during the crisis." — Simon Bowmaker: On why economists matter most in moments of economic emergency. "These horrendously bad ideas come to the table and thankfully we tend not to actually hear about them." — Simon Bowmaker: On economists’ role in preventing harmful policies from being implemented. "In academia you're kind of doing your own thing... In DC, there can be obviously quite a lot of infighting." — Simon Bowmaker: On the cultural and professional difference between academic economics and policy work.

Implications: The episode frames economists as essential crisis-era advisers and policy filterers, while warning that their influence depends heavily on presidential openness. It also suggests future policymaking suffers when expertise is sidelined.