Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Michael Shermer interviews Mark Skousen about his book on Benjamin Franklin, arguing Franklin was America’s most versatile genius and a highly modern founder. They explore Franklin’s science, economics, civic building, politics, religion, slavery, women, and foreign policy, with repeated claims that Franklin favored free enterprise, rationality, cheap government, commerce, and civil debate.
Main Topics: Franklin as a multi-career polymath (Priority: 5/5): Skousen presents Franklin as a printer, scientist, diplomat, inventor, civic organizer, financier, and writer whose breadth exceeded other founders and modern icons. Science, empiricism, and skepticism (Priority: 5/5): The conversation highlights Franklin’s controlled experiments, especially on mesmerism and electricity, as evidence of his commitment to testing claims against reality. Economics, free trade, and money (Priority: 5/5): They discuss Franklin’s support for commercial society, paper currency, compounding, low debt, and skepticism toward protectionism and inflation. Politics, the Constitution, and limited government (Priority: 4/5): Skousen argues Franklin helped shape the Declaration and Constitution through rational, self-evident principles, balance of powers, and concern over concentrated executive authority. Religion, deism, and moral evolution (Priority: 4/5): Franklin is portrayed as moving from deism toward a more active belief in Providence, good works, and a practical morality rather than sermonizing. Slavery, race, and women (Priority: 4/5): The discussion emphasizes Franklin’s later-life shift toward abolitionism and more progressive views, contrasted with the norms and blind spots of his era. Civic institutions and private initiative (Priority: 4/5): Franklin is credited with helping found hospitals, libraries, schools, and clubs, illustrating a preference for local, private, and voluntary solutions over state programs.
Key Arguments: Franklin’s genius was breadth, not just depth: he excelled in science, diplomacy, publishing, finance, and civic life, making him arguably the most versatile founder. Franklin modeled the scientific method in public life by debunking mesmerism with controlled tests and by using experimentation to understand electricity. Franklin would likely support free enterprise, paper money, central banking, and commercial society because he saw trade and finance as engines of prosperity. The phrase "self-evident" in the Declaration reflects rational/scientific reasoning more than religious assertion, according to Skousen. Franklin and Jefferson diverged on commerce and money: Franklin favored cities, trade, and paper currency; Jefferson preferred agrarianism and hard money. Franklin’s warning against concentrated power aligns with checks and balances, the republic, and skepticism toward presidential overreach. Franklin evolved morally on race and slavery, eventually becoming an abolitionist and leader of the Philadelphia Society to Abolish Slavery. Franklin believed in practical religion, good works, and charity, and ended his life with a more active theism than early deism. His financial advice centered on frugality, compounding, debt avoidance, and the productivity of reinvested capital. Franklin’s civic legacy includes hospitals, libraries, schools, paving, street lighting, and the Junto as a model of local improvement.
Data Points: Franklin birth year: 1706 - He was born in 1706 and died in 1790 at age 84. Franklin age at death: 84 - Used to emphasize his longevity and intellectual productivity. Atlantic crossings: 8 - Franklin crossed the Atlantic eight times in his lifetime. Typical Atlantic crossing time: 5 to 6 weeks - Used to illustrate the difficulty and danger of transatlantic travel. Book structure: 80 short chapters - Skousen describes his book as topical rather than a conventional biography. Franklin's careers: 22 careers - Skousen claims Franklin held or embodied 22 different careers, including stand-up comedian as a playful addition. Boston and Philadelphia legacy bequests: 1,000 pounds each - Franklin left 1,000 pounds to Boston and 1,000 pounds to Philadelphia to compound over time. Legacy fund value: about $13 million - Skousen says the compounded funds were worth about $13 million when dissolved in the early 1990s. Compounding example on stock reinvestment: $100,000 to $500,000 vs. about $1,000,000 - Used to demonstrate the power of dividend reinvestment over spending dividends. U.S. imports share of economy: 25% - Mentioned in discussing globalization and why shutting borders would be disastrous. Foreign components in U.S.-made Ford and GM products: 40% - Used to show the interconnectedness of modern manufacturing. Tariff revenue collected so far: $152 billion - Discussed as new federal revenue from tariffs, with uncertainty over whether it would reduce deficits. European currencies before the euro: 12 different currencies - Skousen says he experienced this firsthand in Europe to illustrate the usefulness of a common currency. Executive orders reference: unprecedented number (no exact count given) - Used to argue Franklin would worry about executive overreach and monarchical drift.
Pivotal Quotes: "A virtuous and industrious people may be cheaply governed." — Mark Skousen: Cited as one of Franklin’s core political principles favoring limited, efficient government. "Commerce with all and war with none." — Mark Skousen: Presented as Franklin’s ideal foreign policy and a concise expression of peaceful trade liberalism. "We hold these truths to be self-evident" — Michael Shermer / discussion of Franklin's edit: Referenced as Franklin’s famous edit to the Declaration, interpreted as a rationalist rather than religious formulation.
Implications: The discussion frames Franklin as a model for rational civility, economic freedom, civic entrepreneurship, and institutional restraint—ideas Skousen says remain relevant for debates over trade, monetary policy, polarization, and government size.