Unchained
Unchained

Why Senator Pat Toomey Thinks SEC Chair Gary Gensler Is Wrong About Crypto - Ep. 399

Pat Toomey, U.S. Senator for Pennsylvania, talks about legislation in the crypto industry, how to determine if something is a security, the future of CBDCs, and much more. Show highlights: the structural differences between crypto tokens and securities why Sen. Toomey is demanding crypto legislation

Featured Speakers

Pat Toomey Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Senator Pat Toomey argues crypto should be regulated by a tailored framework, not shoehorned into 1930s securities law or enforced case-by-case by the SEC. He supports stablecoin legislation, opposes banning algorithmic stablecoins outright, is skeptical of a CBDC, and warns that regulatory uncertainty is pushing crypto innovation offshore. The episode also covers major market/news events including Wintermute’s hack, Terra fallout, Tornado Cash sanctions, and other industry developments.

Main Topics: Crypto regulation should be separate from legacy securities law (Priority: 5/5): Toomey says most tokens differ fundamentally from stocks and bonds because they lack issuer claims, explicit returns, and centralization, making existing securities rules a poor fit for crypto. Critique of SEC enforcement-by-action (Priority: 5/5): He repeatedly criticizes Chair Gary Gensler and the SEC for relying on enforcement actions instead of formal rulemaking, arguing this creates uncertainty and bypasses public input. Stablecoin legislation as the most viable near-term policy (Priority: 5/5): Toomey sees a bipartisan stablecoin bill as the most realistic crypto legislation, supports multiple licensing paths, and opposes a ban on algorithmic stablecoins. Concerns about CBDCs and financial privacy (Priority: 4/5): He is open in principle to a CBDC but rejects designs that allow surveillance or direct retail accounts at the Fed, preferring private stablecoins if well regulated. Tornado Cash sanctions and limits of government power (Priority: 4/5): Toomey expresses mixed feelings: he worries about sanctioning code and free-speech implications, but acknowledges Tornado Cash was used by North Korean hackers and other bad actors. Crypto market turmoil and consumer protection (Priority: 4/5): The episode’s news recap highlights Wintermute’s hack, Terra/Luna collapse, Voyager/Celsius distress, and other events that intensified calls for regulation and shaped public and legislative perception. U.S. competitiveness and crypto innovation flight (Priority: 4/5): Toomey says legal ambiguity and aggressive enforcement are causing developers to leave the U.S., weakening American leadership in crypto and related innovation.

Key Arguments: Crypto tokens are structurally different from conventional securities because most do not create direct issuer claims or built-in returns, and many are decentralized. Even if some tokens or transactions can be securities-like, existing securities law cannot simply be applied wholesale to crypto without major gaps and inconsistencies. Regulation by enforcement is flawed because it skips the Administrative Procedures Act process, limits public input, and leaves projects uncertain about whether they are in compliance. A separate crypto regulatory regime created by Congress would provide clarity and better fit the technology than forcing it into old frameworks. Stablecoins deserve their own regulatory framework, and issuers should have multiple supervisory pathways rather than being forced to rely only on the Fed. Algorithmic stablecoins should not be banned outright; disclosure is preferable to prohibition, and future designs may prove viable even after Terra’s collapse. A CBDC should not enable surveillance of individual transactions or universal accounts at the Fed; privacy and open-source/security concerns are major obstacles. Tornado Cash sanctions raise serious First Amendment and precedent concerns, though the government had reason to target North Korean laundering activity. The current U.S. regulatory climate is harming competitiveness by pushing developers and entrepreneurs to other jurisdictions. Among pending legislative efforts, a stablecoin bill is the most likely to pass because it is narrower and has bipartisan momentum.

Data Points: Episode date: September 23, 2022 - Opening intro for the Unchained episode Crypto market decline after Fed hike: ETH fell from around $1,600 to a low of $1,229 - Weekly news recap following a 75 bps Federal Reserve rate increase Wintermute hack: $160 million - Crypto market maker hack discussed in the news recap Wintermute equity cushion: More than 2x the stolen amount - CEO said the company remained solvent after the hack Wintermute ranking: 7th largest exploit in crypto - The hack was described as the seventh largest crypto exploit Arbitrum white-hat reward: 400 ETH (around $500,000) - Reward paid after a bug in Arbitrum Nitro was disclosed Terra/Luna collapse impact: $60 billion in value wiped out - Used in discussion of consumer harm and regulatory response Voyager valuation peak: $3.9 billion - Before bankruptcy proceedings and asset auction Voyager distressed asset bid: $50 million - Binance’s reported offer in the auction Voyager collateral repayment: $160 million - Voyager agreed to repay a loan in exchange for collateral held Celsius stablecoin sale request: $23 million - Celsius asked the bankruptcy court for permission to sell stablecoins FTX fundraising: Up to $1 billion at a $32 billion valuation - Reported during the news recap ETHW trading level: About $5 - Post-merge Ethereum Proof of Work fork token price ETHW share of ETH value: Approximately 0.4% of ETH - As stated in the recap Colorado crypto tax payments: State will accept crypto for taxes - Reported as an adoption development

Pivotal Quotes: "It is different, and it needs to be regulated differently." — Pat Toomey: Summarizing why crypto should have its own regulatory framework rather than being forced into existing securities law "We are seeing an ongoing pattern of regulation by enforcement." — Pat Toomey: Describing the SEC’s approach as unclear, nontransparent, and insufficiently rule-based "I would strenuously oppose any pursuit of a central bank digital dollar that gave the Fed or any central government entity the ability to surveil individual transactions." — Pat Toomey: Explaining his red line for any CBDC design

Implications: The discussion signals momentum for narrower crypto legislation, especially stablecoins, while broader rules remain unlikely. U.S. policy that prioritizes enforcement over clarity may keep driving innovation and talent overseas.

🔓 Sign Up for Unlimited Episode Search

About Unchained

View all episodes from Unchained