127: Adam Grant – How Originals Impact The World

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Ryan Hawk interviews Adam Grant about originality, leadership, and learning. Grant argues that curiosity, rigorous idea selection, and cultures that welcome dissent drive originality more than raw creativity. He shares how writing, speaking, and investing lessons shaped him, why cautious entrepreneurs can outperform bold risk-takers, and how humility, coaching, and feedback helped him improve his TED Talk and communication.

Main Topics: Originality vs. creativity (Priority: 5/5): Grant distinguishes creativity from originality, arguing organizations have plenty of ideas but struggle to select the best ones and create conditions where dissent and voice are welcomed. Curiosity as the engine of learning (Priority: 5/5): Both Hawk and Grant emphasize curiosity as the starting point for creativity and leadership, with Grant describing originality as asking why things are the way they are and whether there is a better way. Leadership, listening, and collaboration with Cheryl Sandberg (Priority: 4/5): Grant explains how Sandberg’s open-mindedness, listening, and willingness to elevate new ideas shaped their collaboration and deepened his research on gender and voice in organizations. Risk, entrepreneurship, and the Warby Parker mistake (Priority: 5/5): Grant recounts declining an early Warby Parker investment because the founders seemed too cautious, then uses the story to argue that successful originality often comes from measured, side-project experimentation rather than all-in risk-taking. Dealing with takers and unfair success (Priority: 3/5): Grant discusses how to respond when selfish people succeed, suggesting perspective shifts, sympathy, and in some cases using a 'taker on a taker' strategy. Preparation and coaching for high-stakes speaking (Priority: 4/5): Grant details the long, iterative process behind his TED Talk, including multiple drafts, practice talks, and coaching, showing that excellent communication is built through revision and feedback. Values of a learning leader (Priority: 4/5): Hawk closes by defining a learning leader as someone who prioritizes improvement over ego, and who combines courage, confidence, curiosity, and humility while treating everyone with equal respect.

Key Arguments: Highly successful people are usually dedicated learners who keep raising the bar rather than resting on past success. Curiosity is the starting point for originality because it leads people to question assumptions and challenge the status quo. Grant sees himself more as a synthesizer than a discoverer: his strength is connecting patterns and organizing evidence into useful frameworks. Organizations do not lack ideas; they lack systems for selecting good ideas and preventing groupthink from suppressing dissent. Sandberg’s openness and data-driven curiosity helped surface new insights about how women’s contributions can be undervalued in organizations. Grant’s research suggests cautious entrepreneurship can be an advantage: side-hustle founders who test and iterate are less likely to fail than people who quit everything and go all in. The Warby Parker founders’ caution helped them iterate into a scalable home try-on model, which was central to their success. When frustrated by takers’ success, some leaders move from anger to pity, recognizing that selfishness often leads to poor personal relationships and meaning. Outstanding speeches are rarely written perfectly the first time; they emerge through drafts, practice, and coaching feedback. A learning leader cares more about getting better than proving how good they are.

Data Points: Tenure year: 2011 - Grant says he got tenure in 2011 before expanding his writing to a broader audience. Books referenced: 2 main books - Ryan highlights Give and Take and Originals as Grant’s major books. Wharton teaching recognition: Top-rated professor for 5 years - Mentioned in Ryan’s introduction of Grant. Influential thinker ranking: One of the world's 25 most influential management thinkers - Mentioned in Ryan’s introduction of Grant. TED Talk timing: February 2016 - Grant describes preparing for his TED Talk given in February of that year. TED prep duration: Several months - He worked on the TED Talk over the months between summer invitation and February stage date. Practice talks: At least 2 major practice talks before TED - He gave practice talks in November and December before the actual TED Talk. Book draft length discarded: 102,000 words - Grant says he threw out the first draft of Give and Take. Entrepreneur failure reduction: 33% less likely to fail - Grant cites a study showing side-project entrepreneurs are less likely to fail than all-in risk-takers. Warby Parker valuation: Over $1 billion - Ryan and Grant discuss Warby Parker becoming a billion-dollar company after Grant passed on investing.

Pivotal Quotes: "I don't think we struggle at creativity. I think we struggle at originality because leaders fall apart all the time when it comes to idea selection and knowing which ones are good, which ones are bad." — Adam Grant: Grant explains the core problem in organizations: not generating ideas, but selecting and elevating the right ones. "I think of someone who cares more about getting better than showing others how good they are." — Adam Grant: Grant answers what a learning leader means to him near the end of the interview. "courage and confidence mixed with curiosity and humility" — Ryan Hawk: Hawk summarizes the leadership values he tries to live by when discussing what he has learned from his interviews.

Implications: For leaders and creators, originality is less about bold self-promotion and more about curiosity, evidence, feedback, and systems that surface good ideas. The episode encourages cautious experimentation, inclusive leadership, and humility as durable advantages.