Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Dan Harris speaks with Buddhist teacher Kyra Jewel Lingo about how to navigate upheaval, drawing on her own disruptive transition from 15 years as a nun to lay life. They explore practices for meeting uncertainty with presence, trusting the unknown, recalling impermanence, cultivating gratitude, and accepting reality without passivity.
Main Topics: Kyra Jewel Lingo’s life transition from nun to layperson (Priority: 5/5): Lingo recounts leaving the Plum Village monastic path after 15 years, describing the move as wrenching because her entire life had been rooted in community and structure. The transition forced her to learn ordinary life skills and face loneliness, independence, and rapid social change. Being present as an anchor in turmoil (Priority: 5/5): The conversation emphasizes waking up to the present moment—breathing, sensing the body, and noticing what is still true—as a way to avoid being swallowed by fear and to relate wisely to difficult circumstances. Trusting the unknown and loosening control (Priority: 4/5): Lingo argues that not knowing can be reframed as expansive rather than threatening. Through retreat practice and guidance from Joseph Goldstein, she learned that uncertainty can be survivable and even fruitful. The five remembrances and impermanence (Priority: 5/5): She explains the Buddhist five remembrances—aging, illness, death, change in loved ones, and karma—as a form of repeated reality-checking that counteracts denial and prompts more intentional living. Gratitude as resourcing during disruption (Priority: 4/5): Gratitude is presented as a stabilizing practice that creates space, lightness, and emotional resilience, making it easier to face pain without suppressing it. Acceptance versus resignation (Priority: 5/5): Lingo distinguishes accepting what is from passivity: acceptance reduces reactivity, allows for clearer action, and can reveal deeper causes and humanity in conflict, making change more possible. We were made for these times (Priority: 5/5): The title’s core message is that people already have what they need to meet today’s crises. Lingo ties this to Buddhist teachings that the future is made of the present, and to a sense of collective readiness amid climate, pandemic, and social crises.
Key Arguments: Presence in the present moment is the best way to care for the future, because the future is made from this moment. Breathing, bodily awareness, and sensory attention provide refuge when fear or panic narrows perception. Uncertainty is not only unavoidable but potentially expansive; not knowing can contain more possibilities than fixed certainty. The five remembrances function like exposure therapy for impermanence, helping people face age, sickness, death, separation, and consequences before crisis hits. Gratitude is not denial; it strengthens people enough to face hard realities more skillfully. Acceptance of reality is different from resignation: it reduces wasted energy and enables more effective, humane action. People and societies are already equipped to meet current crises; transformation comes from meeting the present honestly rather than waiting for a future self to be ready.
Data Points: Years as a nun: 15 years - Lingo lived as a Buddhist nun before leaving the monastery. Year she left monastic life: 2015 - She says she disrobed in 2015. Time since leaving: 6 years - She describes it as six years after leaving. Number of lessons in her book: 10 lessons - The book is titled We Were Made for These Times: 10 Lessons on Moving Through Change, Loss, and Disruption. Five remembrances: 5 - A Buddhist list recited as a daily contemplation on aging, illness, death, change, and karma. Podcast mention: 20% Happier - A new podcast in the 10% Happier app hosted by Matthew Hepburn. App trial length: Two weeks free - Dan Harris promotes the 10% Happier app with a free trial. Extreme crises named: Climate crisis, pandemic, racial crisis, political crisis, economic crises, wealth disparity - Used to underscore the relevance of the book’s message.
Pivotal Quotes: "We were made for these times." — Clarissa Pinkola Estés (quoted by Kyra Jewel Lingo): The title-defining message that humans are equipped for the present moment’s challenges. "What is the future made of but this moment?" — Thich Nhat Hanh (as cited by Kyra Jewel Lingo): Explains why caring for the present is the best way to care for what comes next. "I am of the nature to die, there is no way I can escape death." — Kyra Jewel Lingo: Part of the five remembrances, used to confront impermanence directly.
Implications: For listeners, the episode frames Buddhist practice as practical crisis training: stay present, tolerate uncertainty, remember impermanence, and act from acceptance. For broader culture, it argues resilience comes from inner steadiness, not control.