Fixing Sick Cities (with Alain Bertaud)

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: EconTalk’s Alain Bertaud argues that successful cities are systems to be managed, not designed from scratch. He emphasizes density, mobility, and random interaction; criticizes parking subsidies, arbitrary zoning, and anti-density rules; and warns that aging, low-fertility societies will force cities to adapt to shrinking or shifting populations.

Main Topics: Urbanism as problem-solving, not top-down design (Priority: 5/5): Bertaud describes himself as a 'city doctor' who diagnoses concrete urban problems—housing, traffic, labor-market access—rather than imposing a master plan on cities. Density, mobility, and the economics of large cities (Priority: 5/5): He argues that dense cities create large labor markets and amenity-rich environments, but only if people can move efficiently across the metropolitan area using multiple transport modes. Parking and congestion pricing (Priority: 5/5): Bertaud supports pricing scarce road and parking space, praising Tokyo and Singapore for treating parking and congestion as scarce resources rather than free entitlements. Zoning, housing supply, and affordability (Priority: 5/5): He distinguishes aesthetic, goal-consistent rules (like Paris’s preservation of building form) from arbitrary zoning that blocks housing supply, mixed uses, and smaller units. Urban culture, amenities, and social mixing (Priority: 4/5): The conversation highlights how cafés, pubs, and random encounters make cities productive and creative, while homogeneity and excessive separation weaken urban life. Informal settlements and spontaneous cities (Priority: 4/5): Bertaud explains how self-built neighborhoods can solve affordability and access problems better than rigid formal standards, especially when governments later integrate them into infrastructure networks. Demography and the future of shrinking cities (Priority: 5/5): He warns that declining fertility and aging populations will reshape city growth, creating a major challenge for urban planners who have little experience managing contraction.

Key Arguments: Cities work best when policy focuses on solving specific constraints—housing, traffic, access—rather than imposing a comprehensive vision. In dense cities, road space is scarce and cannot be expanded easily without destruction, so transport must rely on subways, buses, bikes, scooters, and first/last-mile connections. Free curb parking and mandatory off-street parking subsidize car ownership, consume valuable urban land, and increase housing costs. Congestion pricing is legitimate when used to balance demand and supply; it should reduce congestion, not serve as an anti-car ideology. Preservation-oriented zoning can be defensible if it clearly matches its goal (e.g., maintaining Paris’s urban form), but arbitrary use-based zoning often serves to block competition and reduce density. Minimum apartment-size rules and dwelling-unit caps force developers to build larger, more expensive units than the market would otherwise choose, reducing affordable options. Many affordable units already exist through illegal or informal subdivision; regulation often pushes affordability underground rather than eliminating the demand. Cities generate productivity through randomness and encounters with different people; remote work cannot fully replace those accidental interactions. Urban policy must adapt to demographic change: lower fertility and aging populations will reduce the growth of many cities and may require new strategies for shrinking metros. Migration is essential for many cities and countries to maintain labor supply and urban vitality, but it must be managed pragmatically rather than morally framed as either charity or threat.

Data Points: Episode date: November 26, 2024 - Introduction to the conversation Bertaud's prior EconTalk appearance: June 2019 - Discussed his book Order Without Design Tokyo parking policy: No on-street parking; low off-street requirements; strict night enforcement - Referenced as a model by Donald Shoup and Bertaud Manhattan parking share: About 70% of parking lots in Manhattan are free - Bertaud cited this as an aberration Commute threshold: 35 minutes one way - Bertaud says median commute times above this indicate a serious city problem Johannesburg commute example: 2.5 hours one way - Used to illustrate destructive commute burdens Paris population: 2.5 million - Historical Paris described as tightly preserved Paris metro area population: 8 million - Surrounding labor market depends on the center Thailand fertility rate (past): 6 children per woman - Bertaud recalled Bangkok/Thailand 30 years ago Thailand fertility rate (current): 1.3 children per woman - Indicates long-run population decline Germany median age of labor force: About 46–47 - Example of aging workforce Bogotá informal area population: 700,000 to 1,000,000 - Ciudad Bolívar grew from self-built settlement Florianópolis minimum plot size: 350 square meters - Example of restrictive development rules New York apartment minimum size: 32 square meters - Bertaud references current minimum size rules New York old-law tenement example: 3 people in one room and a kitchen - His personal example of chosen high-density living Toyama population decline: About 2% per year - Used to illustrate the challenge of shrinking cities Bangkok/Thailand secondary-city issue: Young people move to Bangkok after studies - Explains why smaller cities struggle to grow

Pivotal Quotes: "I see myself as a city doctor." — Alain Bertaud: He explains why he prefers 'urbanist' over 'urban planner' and frames his role as diagnosing city problems rather than designing cities from scratch. "Something which is free is always under supply." — Alain Bertaud: He is arguing that free on-street parking and unpriced road use create congestion and inefficiency. "The big contribution of cities is precisely randomness." — Alain Bertaud: He describes why dense cities matter intellectually and economically: accidental encounters produce ideas, learning, and productivity.

Implications: The episode argues for urban policy that prices scarcity, permits flexible housing choices, and preserves city character only when clearly intended. It also suggests the next urban challenge is not just growth, but managing aging, migration, and even population decline.