Animal Spirits Podcast
Animal Spirits Podcast

Talk Your Book: 2021 Outlook

On today's Talk Your Book, we speak with Matthew Bartolini about options for diversified investors going forward, how to think about volatility in fixed income investments, cyclical stocks in 2021, the different types of income investments and more. Find complete shownotes on our blogs... Ben C

Featured Speakers

The Compound HostMatthew Bartolini Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The episode argues that the 60/40 portfolio is not dead, but its return engine has changed: low yields mean fixed income must be used more strategically for diversification, not income alone. Bartolini advocates transforming risk across bonds, credit, duration, preferreds, mortgages, loans, and international equities rather than abandoning balanced portfolios.

Main Topics: The 60/40 portfolio is still relevant (Priority: 5/5): The guests push back on claims that 60/40 is obsolete, emphasizing that its main value is risk reduction and diversification, not maximizing returns. Fixed income now requires more deliberate risk budgeting (Priority: 5/5): With core bond yields near historic lows, investors must choose among duration, credit, and currency risk to generate income, instead of assuming plain-vanilla bonds will suffice. Alternative bond exposures as strategic tools (Priority: 4/5): High yield, senior loans, preferreds, and mortgages are presented as portfolio building blocks with different trade-offs in yield, volatility, and correlation. ETFs as liquidity and price discovery mechanisms (Priority: 4/5): The March 2020 treasury and credit selloff is discussed as evidence that fixed-income ETFs helped discover prices and provide liquidity when underlying bonds were stale. Retirement portfolios may need more equity exposure (Priority: 4/5): Lower bond yields imply retirees may need to take more risk through equities or bond-proxy stocks to meet income and longevity needs. International equities remain underowned (Priority: 4/5): A strong case is made that home-country bias left investors overly concentrated in U.S. stocks, and that international markets may benefit from valuation and diversification advantages. 2021 earnings and cyclical rotation (Priority: 3/5): The discussion notes that earnings expectations for cyclicals and the broader market were heavily marked up, but much of the recovery may already be priced in.

Key Arguments: 60/40 should be judged primarily on risk diversification, not just return; it still protected investors by reducing volatility and drawdowns. Low bond yields make traditional core bonds poor income generators, so investors need to understand which risk they are accepting to earn yield. High yield, senior loans, preferreds, and mortgages can each serve different strategic roles because they transform risk rather than eliminate it. Preferreds can offer high-yield-like income with somewhat lower volatility and higher credit quality than high yield, though they add sector and equity-like risk. Senior loans are attractive because floating-rate coupons keep duration low while seniority improves recovery and lowers volatility relative to junk bonds. ETFs functioned as a market utility during March 2020 by providing tradable prices when cash bond markets were illiquid and stale. Retirees may be forced to hold more equity or bond-proxy exposure because traditional fixed income may not generate enough income. International equities are underowned after years of U.S. outperformance, and that could create a diversification opportunity if leadership broadens. Rising rates are not inherently bad; they may reflect improving growth and inflation, while bond price losses are usually manageable rather than catastrophic. Much of the 2021 market rally depended on already elevated earnings expectations, so upside required continued economic improvement.

Data Points: Core aggregate bond yield: ~1.2% to 1.3% - Used to illustrate how little income traditional bonds offer in the current rate environment. High yield yield: just barely 4% - Referenced as a much riskier alternative that still offers only moderate income. High yield historical average yield: 460 to 560 bps - Described as a typical long-run compensation level for taking credit risk. High yield return from coupon: more than 100% of return - Point made that coupon drives most long-term total return in high yield. 60/40 return vs stocks: 91% of stock return - The standard portfolio captured most equity upside over time while diversifying risk. 60/40 volatility reduction: 64% less volatility - Shows the risk-reduction benefit of combining stocks and bonds. 60/40 max drawdown reduction: 36% lower max drawdown - Evidence that diversification improved downside protection. Preferred stock yield: ~4.3% to 4.4% - Presented as comparable to high yield but with different risk characteristics. Preferreds investment-grade share: ~80% to 85% investment grade - Used to argue preferreds may be higher quality than high yield. Preferreds/bonds correlation: ~0.4 - Mentioned as evidence they can diversify a bond-heavy portfolio. Mortgage-backed securities blended income ratio: ~3.2% - Example of pairing mortgages with preferreds for a blended income profile. Senior loan duration: ~0.4 years - Shows why floating-rate loans have low duration risk. Bond portfolio loss under 100 bps rate rise: ~3% loss - Estimated impact on the aggregate bond index from a parallel shift. Bond portfolio loss under 50 bps 10-year move: ~3% loss - Illustrates duration sensitivity even to moderate rate increases. Core bond negative return frequency: 46 periods over 40+ years; about 8% - Used to counter fears that bonds frequently produce losses. 2020 high-grade corporate bond inflows: $59 billion - Record flows into high-grade corporates during the year. 2020 high-yield inflows: $20 billion - Large inflows after March crisis as spreads compressed. 2020 aggregate bond inflows: $76 billion - Shows continued demand for vanilla bond exposure. 2020 equity ETF inflows: second largest inflow year ever behind 2017 - All driven primarily by U.S. equities. Emerging market equity flows: $32 billion in final two months of 2020 - EM had outflows most of the year before a late-year reversal. S&P 500 earnings growth forecast for 2021: ~22% to 25% - Used to show that the market had already priced in a strong recovery. S&P 500 earnings growth forecast for 2022: ~20% - Indicates continued optimism beyond the initial rebound. Cyclicals earnings growth estimate: ~70% - Reflects low base effects after 2020 earnings collapse. Sector composition change since 2007: cyclicals fell from ~50% to ~20% of market - Highlights how much the S&P has shifted toward growth and mega-cap tech. U.S. stock return over 10 years: ~14% per year - Contrasted with weaker foreign equity returns. MSCI EAFE return over 10 years: ~5.5% per year - Illustrates why investors favored U.S. equities and neglected international markets. Europe dividend yield: ~4.5% - Cited as a source of income from international equities. S&P 500 all-time highs: ~400 recent highs - Evidence of strong U.S. market leadership.

Pivotal Quotes: "Don’t give up on that asset mix of 60-40 growth assets and defensive assets." — Matthew Bartolini: Core argument that 60/40 still works as a framework even if expected returns are lower. "You cannot destroy risk, you can only transform it." — Matthew Bartolini: Explains the fixed-income approach of shifting among duration, credit, and currency risks rather than pretending bonds are risk-free. "Diversification is not dead." — Matthew Bartolini: Used to rebut the narrative that 60/40 has failed and to emphasize risk management over headline returns.

Implications: Investors should stop treating bonds as effortless income and instead build portfolios by deliberately choosing the risk they want. Balanced allocation, selective credit, mortgages, preferreds, and more international equity exposure may matter more in a low-yield world.

🔓 Sign Up for Unlimited Episode Search

About Animal Spirits Podcast

Animal Spirits is a show about markets, life, and investing. Join Michael Batnick and Ben Carlson as they talk about what they're reading, writing, listening to and watching. Look for new episodes every Wednesday morning. See our disclosures here - https://ritholtzwealth.com/podcast-youtube-disclosures/

View all episodes from Animal Spirits Podcast