Episode Summary
Executive Summary: Howard Marks explains that a “sea change” is a large, durable transformation rather than a normal cycle. He traces three major shifts: the 1970s move to risk-adjusted investing, the 1980s-2021 era of falling rates, and the current reversal toward higher rates, tighter credit, and greater risk aversion. He argues the last regime likely changes investment opportunity sets materially.
Main Topics: What a sea change means (Priority: 5/5): Marks defines a sea change as a substantial, long-term transformation that differs from ordinary cyclical fluctuations in scale and persistence. First sea change: risk/return thinking replaces asset-quality dogma (Priority: 5/5): In the 1970s, investors moved from avoiding lower-quality assets outright to evaluating whether return compensated for risk, enabling high-yield credit and modern leveraged finance. Second sea change: four decades of declining interest rates (Priority: 5/5): Marks explains how falling rates boosted asset values, lowered corporate financing costs, and encouraged risk-taking across asset classes, making this one of the biggest performance drivers for investors. How the first two sea changes reinforced each other (Priority: 4/5): The new willingness to take risk and the secular decline in rates amplified one another, with private equity cited as the clearest beneficiary. Third sea change: post-GFC/ pandemic stimulus era gives way to tighter conditions (Priority: 5/5): Marks describes the 2009-2021 period as unusually easy, optimistic, and liquidity-rich, then argues the current environment has shifted to higher rates, weaker markets, tighter credit, and real fear. Why the current shift may be durable (Priority: 4/5): He suggests rates likely won’t return to the ultra-low levels of the prior decade and that the normalized environment may favor lenders and bargain hunters over borrowers and asset owners.
Key Arguments: Good investing is about buying things well, not simply buying good things; the risk/return framework was a foundational innovation in modern finance. High-yield bonds and other below-investment-grade instruments became viable once investors accepted that risk could be compensated by adequate return. Long-term declines in interest rates raised the value of nearly all assets and made both companies and investors more willing to take risk. The 2009-2021 period was exceptionally favorable for asset owners and borrowers because the Fed stayed stimulative and inflation stayed subdued. The present environment is the reverse: the Fed is restrictive, inflation is high, credit is tighter, and investors face more risk aversion and less liquidity. The rapid rise in rates in 2022 caused a sharp repricing of both stocks and bonds, showing how quickly regime changes can hit markets. The old “normal” of 2010-2019 was actually an unusual, easy period, and investors should not assume a return to it.
Data Points: Sea changes identified: 3 - Marks says the current memo discusses the third sea change in his career. Global financial crisis end: Late 2009 - Marks uses this as the starting point for the long easy period that followed. Duration of easy environment: 12 of the last 13 years - He argues this period was dominated by supportive Fed policy and low inflation. Pandemic anomaly year: 2020 - He says 2020 was the main disruption to the post-GFC narrative. High-yield defaults in 1991 and 2002 crises: Double-digit defaults for two years - Marks contrasts earlier crises with later Fed-supported periods. High-yield defaults in GFC: Only one double-digit default year - He says the GFC was worse overall but had fewer default years due to support. Projected high-yield pandemic defaults: 15% - Initial expectation for pandemic-era defaults. Actual high-yield pandemic defaults: 5% - Shows the effect of policy support on credit outcomes. Fed funds rate borrowing example: 22.25% to 2.25% - Marks cites his own borrowing cost falling from 1980 to 40 years later. Treasury/fed funds reference level: 4%ish - Current environment described as higher than the prior ultra-low-rate regime. Long-term low-rate examples: Cash 0%, Treasuries 1%, high-grade bonds 2-3%, high-yield bonds 4-5% - He says these low returns were insufficient for many institutional investors. Rate hikes in 2022: 75 basis points consecutively - Marks highlights the unusually aggressive Fed tightening cycle. Inflation peak reference: 40-year high - He uses this to explain why the Fed had to turn restrictive. Speech title period: 2012 to February 2020 - He references a speech called 'Investing in a Low Return World' describing the pre-pandemic environment.
Pivotal Quotes: "I think a sea change is characterized by its scale. It's big. It's substantial." — Howard Marks: Defines what he means by a sea change versus a cycle. "Good investing doesn't come from buying good things, but from buying things well." — Howard Marks: Explains the shift toward risk-adjusted investing in the 1970s. "I do believe that the period ahead will be markedly different from the period behind." — Howard Marks: Summarizes his view that the post-2021 environment is a genuine regime shift.
Implications: Investors should stop assuming the ultra-low-rate, stimulus-heavy era will return. Portfolios may need to favor credit, lenders, and value opportunities over leverage and complacent asset ownership, with greater attention to real risk/return tradeoffs.
About The Memo by Howard Marks
On October 12, 1990, Oaktree Co-Chairman Howard Marks published his first memo to clients. In the decades since, he has periodically released memos reflecting his viewpoint on the investment landscape, as well as more general business insights. On this podcast we'll hear the latest memos by Howard, released in tandem with or shortly after their publication.