The Memo by Howard Marks
The Memo by Howard Marks

Behind the Memo: The Pendulum in International Affairs

Howard Marks Discusses "The Pendulum in International Affairs"

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Oaktree Capital Management HostHoward Marks Guest

Topics Discussed

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: Howard Marks explains that the same pendulum dynamic he sees in markets also shapes international affairs: societies swing between efficiency and security, outsourcing and resilience, optimism and fear. Using Europe’s dependence on Russian energy and global offshoring as examples, he argues that human psychology makes extremes unsustainable, reversals inevitable, and timing hard to predict. Investors should ignore noise and act only when swings become irrational.

Main Topics: The Memo’s origin in connected observations (Priority: 4/5): Marks recounts how noticing relationships between seemingly unrelated events led him to write memos, now including the link between Ukraine, energy dependence, and supply-chain offshoring. The pendulum as a framework for psychology and markets (Priority: 5/5): He presents the pendulum as the best metaphor for understanding human emotion, decision-making, and market cycles because people swing between extremes rather than staying near the midpoint. Economy vs. corporate profits vs. market volatility (Priority: 5/5): Marks contrasts the relative stability of GDP growth with greater profit volatility and far greater market volatility, attributing the difference to human psychology and emotion. International affairs and the swing from efficiency to security (Priority: 4/5): He applies the pendulum to globalization, arguing that decades of outsourcing/offshoring toward cheap, quick, and greener inputs are likely to reverse toward dependability, safety, and energy security. When swings reverse: events vs. natural limits (Priority: 5/5): Marks says reversals often happen because extremes become unsustainable on their own, though major events like the pandemic, Fed interventions, or financial crises can accelerate or arrest swings. Investor implications: wait for irrational extremes (Priority: 5/5): The practical lesson is not to react to every fluctuation; investors should recognize most swings as noise and act only when prices become clearly irrational, creating rare opportunities.

Key Arguments: Markets are driven less by fundamentals in the short run than by the collective psychology of participants. The average return of an asset class is not the typical yearly outcome; markets frequently spend little time near their long-run average. Pendulum swings in sentiment and policy are normal and recurring, so it is mistaken to assume today’s conditions will persist indefinitely. Globalization and offshoring were rational responses to cheapness and efficiency, but the pendulum now favors resilience and security after geopolitical shocks. Extreme optimism or pessimism can persist for a while, so investors should not expect immediate reversals from fair value or from obvious mispricing. The best investment opportunities arise only when the pendulum reaches irrational extremes; small deviations are usually too noisy to trade on reliably. Unemotional investors should see through short-term swings and focus on where the real long-term value lies.

Data Points: Average annual S&P 500 return: 10.5% - Marks cites this as the long-run average over roughly 90 years, emphasizing that the market rarely returns near this figure in any given year. Economic growth in a normal year: About 2% - Used to illustrate that the economy is relatively stable compared with corporate profits and market prices. Strong economic year: 4% - Marks describes 4% GDP growth as a great year. Poor economic year: 0% - Marks says zero growth is a poor year for the economy. Serious recession threshold: Down a couple of percent - He characterizes a decline of a few percent as a serious recession. Corporate profit long-run growth: 6% to 7% a year - Marks says profits rise faster than the economy over time but are much more volatile. Example market return: 27% - He references the prior year’s S&P 500 gain as an example of volatility. Time horizon since thinking about pendulums: At least 32 years - Marks says he has been discussing pendulum swings for more than three decades. Frequency of reliable calls: 5 or 6 times in one’s lifetime - He argues that only rare, extreme mispricings allow high-confidence investment actions. Year of Greenspan’s 'irrational exuberance' warning: 1996 - Marks cites this as an example of exuberance swinging too far before the eventual tech bubble. Duration of continued market rise after warning: 4 more years - He notes the market kept rising after Greenspan’s warning before the TMT bubble burst.

Pivotal Quotes: "In the long run, the market is a weighing machine, but in the short run, it's a voting machine." — Ben Graham: Marks uses this classic line to explain why fundamentals dominate over time while emotion dominates in the short term. "In real life, things tend to fluctuate from pretty good to not so hot. But in the market, they swing from flawless to hopeless." — Howard Marks: He contrasts ordinary economic variation with the exaggerated extremes seen in markets. "There are no permanent solutions because there are no perfect solutions." — Howard Marks: Marks uses this to summarize why trade-offs in international affairs and investing keep causing pendulum swings.

Implications: Listeners should expect recurring reversals in markets, policy, and globalization. The key skill is resisting emotional reactions to noise and waiting for true extremes before making big investment or strategic decisions.

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About The Memo by Howard Marks

On October 12, 1990, Oaktree Co-Chairman Howard Marks published his first memo to clients. In the decades since, he has periodically released memos reflecting his viewpoint on the investment landscape, as well as more general business insights. On this podcast we'll hear the latest memos by Howard, released in tandem with or shortly after their publication.

View all episodes from The Memo by Howard Marks