The Man Bringing Extinct Creatures Back To Life - Ben Lamm - #681

Episode Summary

Executive Summary: The conversation centers on Colossal’s de-extinction work, especially woolly mammoths, dodos, and thylacines, framed as biodiversity restoration rather than “solving” climate change alone. Ben Lamm explains the technical pipeline—ancient DNA recovery, comparative genomics, gene editing, cloning/embryo transfer, and eventual rewilding—while linking the work to ecosystem repair, carbon reduction, and future conservation technologies that may also benefit human medicine and gene therapy.

Main Topics: De-extinction as biodiversity restoration (Priority: 5/5): Lamm positions de-extinction as a conservation tool aimed at rebuilding ecosystems and preserving biodiversity, not a single-company solution to climate change. How mammoth de-extinction works (Priority: 5/5): He walks through the process: ancient DNA extraction, building reference genomes, identifying mammoth-specific traits, editing Asian elephant cells, and using surrogacy to produce proxy mammoths. Bird de-extinction and dodo strategy (Priority: 4/5): The discussion compares mammal and bird methods, emphasizing primordial germ cells and chickens as hosts for recreating dodo-like birds and rewilding Mauritius. Ecological function of reintroduced species (Priority: 5/5): Mammoths, dodos, and thylacines are presented as ecosystem engineers or trophic regulators that could help restore lost ecological balance and reduce climate risk. Technical limits, editing, and synthetic biology (Priority: 4/5): The biggest bottlenecks are described as gene editing scale and developmental engineering rather than DNA recovery, with multiplex editing and DNA synthesis as key tools. Human genome editing and ethics (Priority: 3/5): The conversation broadens to embryo selection, personalized medicine, and the moral limits of gene editing in humans, comparing natural reproduction, IVF, and enhancement. Artificial wombs and scaling conservation (Priority: 4/5): Lamm argues that extra-uterine development could massively scale conservation by enabling production of endangered or extinct proxy species without relying on surrogates.

Key Arguments: Colossal is not claiming it can fix global warming alone; it is targeting biodiversity loss and ecosystem collapse through species restoration. De-extinction means recreating core genes and functional traits of extinct species, not making exact genetic copies. The mammoth is being rebuilt by editing an Asian elephant genome because elephants are the closest living relatives and share most of the DNA. Ancient DNA quality is helped most by preservation environments like permafrost, teeth, and petrous bones; multiple samples increase confidence in genome reconstruction. The hardest current bottleneck is not just finding DNA, but performing precise, multiplex genome edits and validating that the edits produce desired traits without off-target effects. Bird de-extinction is different from mammal cloning; primordial germ cells and chicken hosts may enable dodo-like birds without the same surrogacy constraints. Reintroduced species can have measurable ecological effects: dodos may force invasive-species removal in Mauritius, thylacines may help control Tasmanian devils and disease, and mammoths could restore Arctic grasslands. Mammoths may cool permafrost regions by reducing tree cover and increasing grassland/albedo effects, potentially lowering ground temperatures and reducing carbon release. The technologies developed for de-extinction may spill over into conservation, agriculture, and human medicine, including stem cells, gene regulation, and disease risk reduction. Human gene editing is constrained by ethics and regulation today, but Lamm argues many capabilities already exist indirectly through drugs, embryo screening, and selective breeding analogs.

Data Points: Asian elephant vs. mammoth genome similarity: ~99.6% the same genetically - Used to explain why Asian elephants are the closest template for woolly mammoth proxy creation. Genetic difference to engineer: ~0.4% - Approximate fraction of the genome identified as mammoth-specific in the comparison. Mammoth genomes assembled: 54 genomes - Reference set used to compare against the Asian elephant genome and identify key mammoth traits. Last woolly mammoths alive: ~3,500 BC - Used to show mammoths are relatively recent extinctions, not dinosaur-era creatures. DNA coverage: 20–50x coverage - Described as enough repeated sequencing reads to increase confidence in reconstructed DNA letters. Thylacine gestation: 13.5 days - Compared with mammoths to illustrate species-specific de-extinction complexity. Mammoth gestation: 22 months - Used to explain why mammoth development and scaling are slow. Mammoth and Asian elephant relation: Mammoths are closer to Asian elephants than Asian elephants are to African elephants - Supports the choice of Asian elephant as surrogate and editing base. Ground temperature reduction: Up to 8 degrees lower - Claimed impact of restoring Arctic grasslands and mammoth-like ecosystem engineering. Carbon stored in Arctic permafrost: Over 1 trillion metric tons - Presented as the climate risk if Arctic carbon and methane are released. Methane potency: About 30 times worse than CO2 - Used to explain why permafrost methane release is especially concerning. Elephant p53 expression: 7 expressions vs. about 1 in humans and mice - Discussed as a possible reason elephants have lower cancer rates than expected. Carbon credits equivalent: Half a trillion dollars - Referenced in relation to the ecological value of forest elephants. Natural birth success rate: About 8% - Claimed in discussion of early embryonic losses in natural reproduction. IVF success rate: About 50-50 - Used to argue that embryo selection and sequencing could improve outcomes.

Pivotal Quotes: "I think that we are at the brink of a major biodiversity crisis, which will lead to ecosystem collapse." — Ben Lamm: Opening framing for why Colossal exists and why the work is broader than climate alone. "If we de-extinct the core genes that made a mammoth a mammoth, then to me, that's a mammoth." — Ben Lamm: Defines the company’s functional approach to de-extinction and proxy species. "The rewilding process is going to be as long as the engineering process." — Ben Lamm: Explains that species restoration requires ecological, governmental, and community collaboration, not just lab work.

Implications: The episode suggests de-extinction may become a major conservation technology platform, with spillovers into agriculture and medicine. It also raises urgent ethical and regulatory questions about how far humans should go in editing life.